President Trump Discussions- merged thread

If it were true the allegation Obama/Biden/HRC and senior FBI,CIA,DOJ officials manufactured the Rus

  • I have always favoured Trump and continue to do so

    Votes: 8 34.8%
  • I favoured the other side in the past, but now favour Trump

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I favoured Trump in the past, but now favour the other side

    Votes: 1 4.3%
  • I have never favoured Trump and this doesn't change it for me

    Votes: 8 34.8%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 6 26.1%

  • Total voters
    23
  • Poll closed .
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Remius

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QV,

I’ll give you an answer to your original post.  To be honest I never put much stock into the Russian Collusion accusations.  I also don’t put much stock in the accusations being levelled at Clinton or Obama. It’s politics on both sides.  Neither Clinton, Obama or Trump will be convicted or even charged in any of this.

It is political kabuki. 

The truth, is that people won’t hinge their opinions on this about Trump.  The current thing he is being judged on is COVID.  And he’s losing on that front.  People already had a low opinion of Clinton so none of this will make anyone now say that Trump is such a great guy.

Last Election we didn’t have an incumbent.  We had two unpopular candidates and one of them had a record in public service that a lot of middle of the spectrum voters decided to give the other a chance to see how he would do.  He now has a record and by most accounts assuming things are to be believed isn’t stellar. 

Most of us here only have opinions and those same opinions only count in terms of discussion.  Most of us can’t vote and didn’t vote.

For me I didn’t “favour” Trump.  But I disliked Clinton more.  If I were a voter I likely would have gone third party despite that being a lost cause. 

But...

Like many, I thought that the weight and responsibility of the office would set Trump on a better course.  That he was surrounded by good competent people to help keep him in check.

That didn’t happen.  He drove away or fired most of his best people.  He hasn’t been presidential at all (except for a few times maybe) and has failed to handle the worst crisis in any administration since WW2 (possibly 9/11). 

So no.  Even if the latest revelations prove to be true about a conspiracy against him, he has done so many other things to tip the balance against him.  If anything, it might convince some people that trying to keep him out of office, as nefarious as it is, would have the US in a better place now than they have been.  Not agreeing with that just stating that some people would use his performance as a justification for those actions.

 

Infanteer

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QV said:
Some people like to discuss these topics here for the insight from serving or retired CAF personnel. You don't have to participate or even read this thread.

Yes, but you and many others, aren't here to discuss anything.  Your posting history amply demonstrates your convictions on President Trump, Republicans/Democrats, and American Politics in general.  So basically, this thread is designed to take up bandwidth with source-fencing and circular arguments about who really wants to destroy the Republic and the Constitution.  :argue:
 

Ralph

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#ButHerEmails
https://www.newsweek.com/trump-officials-private-email-ivanka-jared-kushner-betsy-devos-1449556?amp=1&__twitter_impression=true
 

mariomike

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Ralph said:
#ButHerEmails
https://www.newsweek.com/trump-officials-private-email-ivanka-jared-kushner-betsy-devos-1449556?amp=1&__twitter_impression=true

Meanwhile, Mexico still hasn't paid for The Wall, and Hillary still isn't in jail.  :)

Fri October 9, 2020

Pompeo says he will release Clinton emails following Trump criticism
https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/09/politics/pompeo-clinton-emails/index.html?utm_term=link&utm_content=2020-10-09T21%3A52%3A55&utm_source=twcnnbrk&utm_medium=social
(CNN) Secretary of State Mike Pompeo on Friday announced he would release more of former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton's emails -- an openly political move on behalf of President Donald Trump ahead of the November election and a year after a State Department investigation concluded there was no "persuasive evidence" of widespread mishandling of classified information by Clinton or her aides.



 

Bruce Monkhouse

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mariomike said:
Meanwhile, Mexico still hasn't paid for The Wall, and Hillary still isn't in jail.  :)
Still got 4 years and a few months yet....
 

Remius

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Just in case anyone thinks the election is a slam dunk.


https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/10/politics/polling-trump-can-win/index.html
 

mariomike

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shawn5o said:
I believe the claim of "depressing the minority vote" is an exaggeration.

Maybe.

The president acknowledged in a 2017 meeting with civil rights leaders that he benefited from Black voters staying home.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/08/21/trump-black-voters-turnout-2016-398520

On  Fox and Friends he said Democrats want “levels of voting that, if you ever agreed to it, you’d never have a Republican elected in this country again.”

Regardless, I don't see how US Team Red fans have anything to worry about.

If the vote isn't going their way, what is to stop Republican state legislatures from saying,

"We don’t think the results of our own state are accurate, so here’s our slate of electors that we think properly reflect the results of our state."
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/11/what-if-trump-refuses-concede/616424/

Republicans control both legislative chambers in the six most key battleground states: Arizona, Florida, Michigan, North Carolina, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin.

If neither candidate gets 270 electoral votes, the election goes to the House, where each state gets one vote.

26 votes wins. The Republicans control 26 state delegations.









 

Brad Sallows

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Leaving aside all the other Qanon-for-lefties about elections that infests the media these days, if the House is called upon to decide the election, it will be the House as it is composed after the election, not before.
 

mariomike

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Brad Sallows said:
Leaving aside all the other Qanon-for-lefties about elections that infests the media these days,

If anyone is interested in further reading on the subject, various sources,

https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ALeKk01BuOCoZ9W3S0rAe2Pa-l3Riv3iEg%3A1602350442055&source=hp&ei=au2BX4pNgqT9BsnclcAP&q=house+decide+election&oq=house&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQARgAMgQIIxAnMgUIABCRAjIFCAAQkQIyBAguEEMyBwguELEDEEMyBAgAEEMyBwgAELEDEEMyCgguEMcBEKMCEEMyBAguEEMyBwgAELEDEEM6CAgAELEDEIMBOgsILhCxAxDHARCjAjoICC4QsQMQgwE6BAguECdQwjxYwkhglG1oAHAAeACAAf4CiAGOCZIBBzAuMy4wLjKYAQCgAQGqAQdnd3Mtd2l6&sclient=psy-ab#spf=1602350456963
 

shawn5o

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shawn5o said:
I believe the claim of "depressing the minority vote" is an exaggeration.

;)

mariomike said:
Maybe.

Regardless, I don't see how US Team Red fans have anything to worry about.

If the vote isn't going their way, what is to stop Republican state legislatures from saying,

Republicans control both legislative chambers in the six most key battleground states: Arizona, Florida, Michigan, North Carolina, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin.

If neither candidate gets 270 electoral votes, the election goes to the House, where each state gets one vote.

26 votes wins. The Republicans control 26 state delegations.

Hi mariomike

I think the highlighted word 'maybe' is slightly off ref "I believe the claim of 'depressing the minority vote' is an exaggeration." and note politico's complaint was low turnout - not voter suppression.

The politico article states

lower turnout among Black voters did, in fact, benefit him in the 2016 presidential election.

“Many Blacks didn’t go out to vote for Hillary ‘cause they liked me. That was almost as good as getting the vote, you know, and it was great,” the president-elect said, according to an audio recording of the meeting shared with POLITICO.

...

Trump has repeatedly alleged, without evidence, that expanding mail-in voting will lead to massive fraud, and Republicans have filed lawsuits against a number of states attempting to do so. Higher voter turnout tends to benefit Democrats — low turnout among Black voters in key states is one of the reasons Hillary Clinton lost to Trump in 2016. And voting rights activists have warned that GOP efforts to limit access to absentee ballots could keep many from voting this fall, particularly Black people, seniors and others at high risk from Covid-19.

The coronavirus pandemic was not on anyone’s radar on Jan. 16, 2017, Martin Luther King Jr. Day, when Trump hosted the meeting with leaders from the Drum Major Institute, a voting rights group founded by King and fellow civil rights leader Harry Wachtel. But voting access was. The meeting was requested to lobby Trump on a proposal to put photo identification on Social Security cards to combat voter ID laws.

Well, the way i see it is simply the democrats are dependant on the Black vote. I cannot comment on mail-in voting or absentee voting.

But is it any coincidence that 18 states plus the District of Columbia that demand no form of identification are those that normally support Democratic Party candidates?

And how did politico determine that Hillary lost due to lack of Black votes? Did politico commission a survey on that issue?

As to voter fraud (one of Trump's fave attacks) see below. A report from 2014:

Do non-citizens vote in U.S. elections? Jesse T. Richman, Gulshan A. Chattha, David C. Earnest

Abstract
In spite of substantial public controversy, very little reliable data exists concerning the frequency with which non-citizen immigrants participate in United States elections. Although such participation is a violation of election laws in most parts of the United States, enforcement depends principally on disclosure of citizenship status at the time of voter registration. This study examines participation rates by non-citizens using a nationally representative sample that includes non-citizen immigrants. We find that some non-citizens participate in U.S. elections, and that this participation has been large enough to change meaningful election outcomes including Electoral College votes, and Congressional elections. Non-citizen votes likely gave Senate Democrats the pivotal 60th vote needed to overcome filibusters in order to pass health care reform and other Obama administration priorities in the 111th Congress.
http://www.judicialwatch.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Do-Non-Citizens-Vote-in-US-Elections-Richman-et-al.pdf

:cheers:
 

Brad Sallows

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"Lower" (typical, in point of fact) black turnout probably would have benefited any Republican.  Turnout in 2016 was not "low", it was actually pretty good; it just wasn't atypically high (as it was during Obama's two election years).

See chart here.
 

Remius

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https://www.foxnews.com/politics/unmasking-probe-ends-no-charges


Well that ended without a bang.
 
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