New Royal Navy Warfare Officer pin

[dapaterson]

"Excuse me, you've got your nametag and ribbons on the wrong side."

"Excuse me, your ribbons are in the wrong order."

...elevator conversations at 101...

 

[Underway]

Serious question wrt our uniforms:

Our short sleeve shirt is only worn during summer months. Our short sleeve uniform has an inordinate amount of bling; it take me forever to transfer my bling onto a cleaned shirt. I've got shoulder boards, SSI, dive bade, name tag, and medals.

Our long sleeve shirt is worn primarily during cooler weather, but there's no reason it can't be an order of dress during the summer months either. Unlike the short sleeve, there is exactly zero bling on the long sleeve shirt, not even a name tag!

Does no one see anything wrong with this?

I hate that we don't even put a name tag on the long sleeve, and I hate that it takes me 15+ mins just to make sure all my bling is perfectly lined up on the short sleeev.

Has anyone talked about at a minimum putting the name tag on the long sleeve? Has anyone talked about reducing the amount of bling on the day-to-day short sleeve order of dress? Maybe also reduce that to just a name tag? Maybe a name tag and ribbons only, no specialist badges or SSI?

Thank Lumber!  Now we will get ribbons on our sweater like the British.... (you were the guy Private Pyle'd in basic weren't you).  Lol

Seriously the long sleeve is supposed to be worn under the sweater, as officers are not allowed to wear short sleeve under sweaters.  Which is why it has no bling, because that would look stupid with all the lumps, or you would have to take 10 min taking off the bling to get the sweater on, only to find it to hot, take the sweater off and have to take 20min to replace the bling. 

 

[daftandbarmy]

Serious question wrt our uniforms:

Our short sleeve shirt is only worn during summer months. Our short sleeve uniform has an inordinate amount of bling; it take me forever to transfer my bling onto a cleaned shirt. I've got shoulder boards, SSI, dive bade, name tag, and medals.

Our long sleeve shirt is worn primarily during cooler weather, but there's no reason it can't be an order of dress during the summer months either. Unlike the short sleeve, there is exactly zero bling on the long sleeve shirt, not even a name tag!

Does no one see anything wrong with this?

I hate that we don't even put a name tag on the long sleeve, and I hate that it takes me 15+ mins just to make sure all my bling is perfectly lined up on the short sleeev.

Has anyone talked about at a minimum putting the name tag on the long sleeve? Has anyone talked about reducing the amount of bling on the day-to-day short sleeve order of dress? Maybe also reduce that to just a name tag? Maybe a name tag and ribbons only, no specialist badges or SSI?

During your estimate of the situation you forgot to consider the fat people amongst us, many of whom are senior ranks. They look awful in 'shirts only' for obvious reasons.

Unless you're wearing a kilt, of course

 

[FSTO]

How?! It takes me at least 3 tries adjusting the the name tag alone to get it lined up with the pocket. I then line up the SSI with the name tag. Then I put on the shirt, look in the mirror, and realize that the SSI is NOT actually line up and level/oriented properly with the name tag. Ditto for the other side.

Didn't go to RMC so I know how to dress myself?

Just kidding!!

 

[dimsum]

Seriously the long sleeve is supposed to be worn under the sweater, as officers are not allowed to wear short sleeve under sweaters. 

In the Navy.  RCAF and Army officers are allowed.

I personally think it looks stupid so I won't, but I'm allowed to do so.

 

[FSTO]

Thank Lumber!  Now we will get ribbons on our sweater like the British.... (you were the guy Private Pyle'd in basic weren't you).  Lol

Seriously the long sleeve is supposed to be worn under the sweater, as officers are not allowed to wear short sleeve under sweaters.  Which is why it has no bling, because that would look stupid with all the lumps, or you would have to take 10 min taking off the bling to get the sweater on, only to find it to hot, take the sweater off and have to take 20min to replace the bling.

And if our sweaters weren't so poorly made that they start to pill after 2 washes, look like shyte with the v neck, and are damn near worn like a skirt by most of folks I'd actually consider wearing the thing. Until we get a crew neck sweater none of my LOGISTK points will be wasted on one.

 

[Navy_Pete]

In the Navy.  RCAF and Army officers are allowed.

I personally think it looks stupid so I won't, but I'm allowed to do so.

Uh, what?  It's an allowed order of dress, most people just don't wear the shoulder boards and whatnot underneath the sweater. Because, you know, if it's cold enough for a sweater, wearing a short sleeve is a bit dumb. It may be discouraged among some as a tradition, but that's like the beret.

Some days I like to rock a beret with sweater, short sleeve and parade boots just to cross all the lines.

I think this pin is obviously redundant though; NWOs are like vegans and crossfitters, and will be the first to tell you how awesome they are as a BWK/ORO/CbtO etc to make sure you know they are an NWO (and not a shifty engineer or something).

 

[dimsum]

Uh, what?  It's an allowed order of dress, most people just don't wear the shoulder boards and whatnot underneath the sweater. Because, you know, if it's cold enough for a sweater, wearing a short sleeve is a bit dumb. It may be discouraged among some as a tradition, but that's like the beret.

Some days I like to rock a beret with sweater, short sleeve and parade boots just to cross all the lines.

Is there some no-no to wearing the beret as an officer?  If so, it's news to me and a bunch of other aircrew types. 

And mods, can we split/merge this into another uniform discussion?

 

[FSTO]

Is there some no-no to wearing the beret as an officer?  If so, it's news to me and a bunch of other aircrew types. 

And mods, can we split/merge this into another uniform discussion?

A Naval officer wearing a beret with the short sleeve shirt looks kinda dumb to me. Similar to wearing grey sweats on a first date!

 

[Navy_Pete]

Is there some no-no to wearing the beret as an officer?  If so, it's news to me and a bunch of other aircrew types. 

And mods, can we split/merge this into another uniform discussion?

ff topic:

No, it's a tradition thing were some senior officers get really bent out of shape for naval officers wearing berets with DEUs.

It's a bit of a dead horse though, so suggest just let it die rather then split it.

 

[Lumber]

Re: LS shirt...you know you bling is on your tunic, right?  LS shirt by itself is not a walking out uniform.

But you see the long sleeve and tie is more than just an "undershirt" to be worn under the tunic. It's perfectly acceptable office wear.

And while long sleeve by itself is not walking-out dress, you CAN wear a long sleeve shirt with nothing more than a sweater or canex jacket over-top and "walk out" wearing that.

Further, I feel like we've skipped a step in terms of environmentally (temperature) appropriate orders of dress. In hot weather, we wear the short sleeve. In cold weather, we wear long-sleeve with sweater. Well, what about "cool" weather? Well, in those cases you wear the long sleeve without the sweater, but there are restrictions on that (i.e. it can't be walking out dress).

I have worked in several offices, and during the winter months, everyone is wearing shirt and tie sans sweater, because it's generally too cool to wear a short sleeve (not to mention it's not permitted), and always warm enough that with proper heating you don't need a sweater.

I just wish in these "office" situations we had a name tag on our long sleeve. It helps when you are at a big unit (or new unit) and have no idea what peoples names are.

As an aside, in purely office units (HQs, some schools, etc), I like the look of shirt and tie better than short sleeve. Short sleeve with all the bling makes it look like were all getting ready for a parade. IMO.

 

[dapaterson]

If the RCN put half the effort into acquiring ships that it puts into uniforms and bling...

 

[Good2Golf]

But you see the long sleeve and tie is more than just an "undershirt" to be worn under the tunic. It's perfectly acceptable office wear.

And while long sleeve by itself is not walking-out dress, you CAN wear a long sleeve shirt with nothing more than a sweater or canex jacket over-top and "walk out" wearing that.

Further, I feel like we've skipped a step in terms of environmentally (temperature) appropriate orders of dress. In hot weather, we wear the short sleeve. In cold weather, we wear long-sleeve with sweater. Well, what about "cool" weather? Well, in those cases you wear the long sleeve without the sweater, but there are restrictions on that (i.e. it can't be walking out dress).

I have worked in several offices, and during the winter months, everyone is wearing shirt and tie sans sweater, because it's generally too cool to wear a short sleeve (not to mention it's not permitted), and always warm enough that with proper heating you don't need a sweater.

I just wish in these "office" situations we had a name tag on our long sleeve. It helps when you are at a big unit (or new unit) and have no idea what peoples names are.

As an aside, in purely office units (HQs, some schools, etc), I like the look of shirt and tie better than short sleeve. Short sleeve with all the bling makes it look like were all getting ready for a parade. IMO.

Para 1.  You mean an office that may have your name and rank and position as well as be surrounded by people who know who you are already?

Para 2.  So you want bling in something that you’re going to cover up if you walk out anyway? ???

Para 3.  In ‘cool’ weather, walking out gear of a CANEX jacket over a short sleeve shirt would work, no?

Para 4.  Perhaps the Senior Service could look to the RCAF which doesn’t take the arcane step to forbid short sleeve shirt wear during the winter, because, you know, people can be in a comfortable climatically-controlled office in the winter. 

Para 5.  Since your office is more than likely in a controlled zone where you would be wearing an access pass openly visible (and above waist height, of course) maybe people to look at that pass to see your name...and rank...and which buildings you have access to...and a photo of you...and...

Para 6.  Whoa, whoa, whoa...short sleeve shirts have to much bling and look like you’re going to a parade?  I thought you wanted more bling, not less?  So less bling on short sleeve and more on long sleeve, but not too much more, or you’ll still look like your going on parade, unless you actually are going on parade in which case you’ll put your tunic on over your long sleeve shirt which has all the bling already (like the short sleeve shirt does, but that you can’t wear in parade because of hundreds of years of tradition unimpeded by material and fabric advancements).

Got it. ;D

 

[FSTO]

If the RCN put half the effort into acquiring ships that it puts into uniforms and bling...

Umm...all I would like is a crew neck sweater that fits right and doesn't fall apart after two washes. As for the rest? The old NCD with your ships crest and your last name was the perfect amount of accoutrements on a combat dress worn at sea. Then the good idea club got infected by the Army Bling virus and we (the RCN) are now saddled with enough visual identifier crap that even the girl guides giggle at us!

 

[dimsum]

Para 3.  In ‘cool’ weather, walking out gear of a CANEX jacket over a short sleeve shirt would work, no?

Great.  Now I await the inevitable message for adding bling on CANEX jackets.

Thanks, folks.  :Tin-Foil-Hat:

Umm...all I would like is a crew neck sweater that fits right and doesn't fall apart after two washes.

What was the reasoning to get rid of the old knit sweaters?  They were awesome.  Were they that much more expensive?

 

[Navy_Pete]

If the RCN put half the effort into acquiring ships that it puts into uniforms and bling...

Fortunately they are totally different DGs. The typical result I've ever encountered from these kinds of announcements are eye rolls, derision and carrying on with things that are actually important.

Waiting for some engineer to pipe up that they want a pin for getting their HOD board done (which is equivalent to the ORO qualification career wise).

Personally could care less about any of this stuff, and would gladly roll up in a plain set of coveralls with some rank flaps if it got us actual equipment, parts, tech manuals, training, support etc.

 

[Lumber]

Uuughhhh... You're really going to make me do this? 

Para 1.  You mean an office that may have your name and rank and position as well as be surrounded by people who know who you are already?

At an NRD, many people had neither offices nor cubicles but had shared spaces without name plates.

Further, just because people have offices with nameplates, doesn't mean that those are the places I interact with them. Hallways, lunch rooms, elevators, conference rooms, etc. All are places where I might be in a gathering of people wearing a long sleeve and tie and not know their names without asking. I'm bad with names ok! I don't want to have to ask the same person 3 times what their name is!

Para 2.  So you want bling in something that you’re going to cover up if you walk out anyway? ???

I don't want bling, I want a name tag!

Para 3.  In ‘cool’ weather, walking out gear of a CANEX jacket over a short sleeve shirt would work, no?

Sure, but what if it's cool in the office? Not cool enough for a sweater, but cool enough that you don't want a short sleeve. I've seen people wearing their canex jackets in the office because it was too cold for the dress of the day, which was short sleeve, and it looks silly.

Para 4.  Perhaps the Senior Service could look to the RCAF which doesn’t take the arcane step to forbid short sleeve shirt wear during the winter, because, you know, people can be in a comfortable climatically-controlled office in the winter. 

Having worn a short sleeve under a sweater for 4 years at RMC, and from then on for the past decade wearing only long sleeve and tie under the sweater, I am of the firm opinion that the long sleeve and tie looks far better and more professional under the sweater than a short sleeve shirt.

Para 5.  Since your office is more than likely in a controlled zone where you would be wearing an access pass openly visible (and above waist height, of course) maybe people to look at that pass to see your name...and rank...and which buildings you have access to...and a photo of you...and...

Fair point. I still want a name tag.

Para 6.  Whoa, whoa, whoa...short sleeve shirts have to much bling and look like you’re going to a parade?  I thought you wanted more bling, not less?  So less bling on short sleeve and more on long sleeve, but not too much more, or you’ll still look like your going on parade, unless you actually are going on parade in which case you’ll put your tunic on over your long sleeve shirt which has all the bling already (like the short sleeve shirt does, but that you can’t wear in parade because of hundreds of years of tradition unimpeded by material and fabric advancements).

Got it. ;D

I want a name tag on the long sleeve, and less bling on the short sleeve, unless that short sleeve is going to be worn for a formal event!

Please.

And thank you.

 

[dimsum]

Uuughhhh... You're really going to make me do this? 

What, you have somewhere to be?  ;D

 

[captloadie]

Be prepared to have your mind blown. The newest Dress instructions actually allow this:

(Long-Sleeved Shirt)
No. 3A Indoors, when an occasion allows the removal of jackets for a more casual work appearance. May be worn:
a. aboard military vehicles, ships and aircraft;
b. within the confines of DND property, including military buildings, or those areas of public buildings occupied by the military; and
c. may be worn as walking out dress when worn with headdress.

 

[Good2Golf]

Lumber, you need to figure out how to lobby CPO1 Steeves to get what you want.  He’s a key member of the CAF Dress and Ceremonial Committee.  That’s where the really important decisions in Ittawa are actually made.

Good luck.