Dutch ships and designs and the possibilities for Canada

[MarkOttawa]

But in fact neither Canada nor anybody else actually declared war--was called a UN "police action":
http://www.cbc.ca/archives/entry/canada-pledges-military-aid-to-south-korea

Mark
Ottawa

 

[Underway]

I think underestimating the threat that NK is becoming, is very short-sighted.

Not underestimating the threat. Approaching it from reality.  Don't overinflate Canada's geopolitical importance.  We are a non-player and are not even on the NK radar.  Like I said if you are going to blow someone up then you better pick someone who if you hurt it really matters from a geopolitical point of view.  Why hit Canada and have all of NATO fall on you when you can hit the US and hurt them before all of NATO falls on you.  Better yet hit Japan and really do some damage before anyone can even defend themselves, while avoiding NATO all together.  Or even hit Taiwan, just to really f things up.  No, we don't even rate a tertiary target.

 

[Karel Doorman]

So i have an artist impression (Damen)of the new class of ASW/GP frigates together with the new MCM vessels to be built in the next years.(Damen's idea of how these ships could look like)


<a href="https://ibb.co/mJ9MLG"><img src="https://image.ibb.co/iTPAEb/v_MFF_en_v_MCM.jpg" alt="v_MFF_en_v_MCM" border="0"></a>

Here 1 of the Frigate alone.

<a href="https://ibb.co/ceoJjb"><img src="https://preview.ibb.co/gHayjb/v_MFF_By_Damen.jpg" alt="v_MFF_By_Damen" border="0"></a>

These are the 3 pictures released by the DMO(Defence Material Organisation,roughly translated),they show a different picture.(also artist impressions)

<a href="https://imgbb.com/"><img src="https://image.ibb.co/hAS3jb/silhouetten_vergeleken_v_MFF.jpg" alt="silhouetten_vergeleken_v_MFF" border="0"></a>

A is from 2014
B is from 2015
C is from 2017

 

[Karel Doorman]

And today(well yesterday) was the day for the 1st Smart-L MMN to be delivered to the DMO(Defence Material Organisation)for the DZP class.

Thales delivered the first SMART-L MM/N radar to the Defence Materiel Organisation. This milestone marks an important moment in time, where we continue to fulfil the big ambitions of our Netherlands Ministry of Defence.

https://www.facebook.com/ThalesNederland/?hc_ref=ARSrb79ZROX2_gJavf_H88zh0Zjgpa5keVN3n2sW_KUAOl_tPi9wJt_czHsHGyN48AY&fref=nf

 

[Karel Doorman]

Thales Goalkeeper Passes Sea Acceptance Trials Following Upgrade

The first Goalkeeper Close-In Weapon System of the Royal Netherlands Navy equipped with the Upkeep modifications contracted in 2012, was subjected to the Sea Acceptance Trials (SAT) and passed all tests with flying colours.



The tests with air targets included: detection, tracking and elimination of Kinetiq Banshee propeller and jet drones with traditional and modern inbound attack flight paths. For surface targets, the same procedure was carried out with Kinetiq Sprite II drones.

The Upkeep Modification will once again bring performance of the Goalkeeper system to the highest operational status, in correspondence with the Royal Netherlands Navy’s ambition to optimally protect its crew and ships during overseas deployments. The Upkeep consists of new algorithms and state-of-the-art electro-optic tracking capabilities, making Goalkeeper capable of dealing with any threat, including modern, evasive maneuvering air threats with a complex trajectory. The system was developed in the 1980s; the update will enable its deployment for many years to come.

The Goalkeeper SAT was performed on HNLMS Johan de Witt. Other Goalkeeper Customers expressed their interest in this Upkeep modification.

Over the years, Goalkeeper's excellent performance has been clearly demonstrated in various live firing trials. A total of 63 Goalkeepers have been sold to Navies across Europe, the Middle East and the Far East.

https://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php/news/defence-news/2018/march-2018-navy-naval-defense-news/6067-thales-goalkeeper-passes-sea-acceptance-trials-following-upgrade.html

 

[Karel Doorman]

The latest rendering and possibly the final one for the new ASW frigates(look very nice)Budget for these(for now 2 for The Netherlands and 2 for Belgium with option for 2 more for The Netherlands) is about 2-2.5 billion.

The strange thing offcourse is that Belgium has budgetted about 1.5 billion for 2,so very likely that we will buy more(let's hope so)

https://photos-5.dropbox.com/t/2/AADZD1PCHlnJXA097bO8xSuEfxWxHEkU7xsH5S1DOhXJ6g/12/154874981/png/32x32/3/1522105200/0/2/vMFF_0318_edit.png/EJq3sXYY2QQgBygH/qGuYOYXAhIzlH3yN3em4VV6b6_6PZDmN0DzpOMyT6Z8?dl=0&preserve_transparency=1&size=2048x1536&size_mode=3

 

[tomahawk6]

Gotta find work for Canadian shipyards I would think.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Gotta find work for Canadian shipyards I would think.

that will be the driving force.

 

[Karel Doorman]

exciting news for us the proposed design from Damen/Saab has been revealed,for the Walrus replacement. 8)

Saab-Damen presents design of the replacement Walrus-class class submarine

http://nlnavy.damen.com/saab-damen-presents-design-replacement-walrus-class-submarine/

 

[jollyjacktar]

Very sleek and nice.

 

[Karel Doorman]

Some dual spot operations on board The Johan de Witt  (LPD)of the Dutch Navy.

https://youtu.be/-nwgNXTsbY8

 

[Karel Doorman]

ndoDefence 2018: Damen Unveils 6000 Tons 'Omega' Frigate

    November 2018 Naval News
    Posted On Wednesday, 07 November 2021 17:05

By Xavier Vavasseur - Editor in Chief
At IndoDefence 2018, the tri service defense exposition currently held in Jakarta, Indonesia, Dutch shipbuilding group Damen unveiled the new 6,000 tons class 'Omega' Frigate design.

IndoDefence 2018 Damen Unveils 6000 Tons Omega Frigate 1 The new Omega frigate by Damen. Damen image.

Talking to Navy Recognition at the event, Bob De Smedt, one of the naval architect who worked on the Omega project, explained that the scale model on display is representative of an early concept for the future Royal Netherlands Navy (Koninklijke Marine) and Belgian Navy (Marinecomponent / Composante marine) M Frigate replacement. However the main reason the new Omega class of frigates was unveiled at IndoDefence (and not Euronaval for example which was held two weeks ago) is because Damen is now ready to answer Indonesia's potential need for a large frigate (hence the 'FFI' name on a Damen image, standing for Future Frigate Indonesia).

Omega is actually set to be a new family or product line by Damen, that will come in addition to (and above) the famous Sigma product line. The main difference however is that there will be no "standard Omega lines": Omega designs will always be fully tailored to customer requirements.

For this reason, a future Indonesian Navy (TNI AL) Omega frigate design is likely to look different to the future M Frigate replacement... unless Indonesia is willing and able to team up with the Dutch and Belgian order. The Netherlands and Belgium are jointly procuring four frigates (two each) to replace their M frigates. Navy Recognition learned from various sources during IndoDefence that TNI AL has an "emerging need" for a 6,000 tons class of frigates as a follow on to its third and fourth PKR frigates (also a Damen design, of the Sigma family).

While this design could be proposed to other navies (New Zealand comes to mind), Damen stressed that this is not the  design they are offering for Germany's MKS 180. Damen could not elaborate further about MKS 180.

IndoDefence 2018 Damen Unveils 6000 Tons Omega Frigate 2 Omega frigate sailing alongside TNI AL's PKR frigate (Sigma 10514). Artist impression: Damen.

Omega design features
Damen explained to us that the Omega / FFI frigate is based on the proven LCF / De Zeven Provinciën-class frigate hull form. The vessel features an hybrid propulsion system consisting of 4x diesel engines (two can be used for economic speed, four for sprint) plus 2x electric engines. The diesel engines are separated forward and aft for increased survivability. Power generation aboard the ship takes into account future weapon systems such as directed energy weapons.

The Omega frigate features two large multi mission bays: One amidship and one at the stern. As is the trend with latest generation frigates (Type 26 and FTI/Belharra) the midship multimission bay goes across from port to starboard sides with an overhead handling system to load and move containers or launch and recover RHIBS or USVs/UUVs. The midship multimission bay is large enough to accommodate up to 4x 20 foot containers and the stern multmission bay can accommodate 2x 20 foot containers. Note that there is an additional space on the upper deck, next to the anti-ship missile launchers for 2x additional containers.

IndoDefence 2018 Damen Unveils 6000 Tons Omega Frigate 3 Omega scale model on Damen stand at Indodefence 2018. Navy Recognition picture.

Thales S/X suite
The futuristic looking (almost Zumwalt-eske) topside of the Omega Frigate is mainly due to the new generation radar suite provided by Thales: Boudewijn Geerink from Thales Netherlands told Navy Recognition at Indodefence 2018 that it is the new S/X suite consisting of the SeaMaster 400 fixed panel S-band radar suite and the APAR Block II X-band multi-function radar, both using gallium nitride technology. According to Thales, the new fixed panel S-band radar solution is the right answer to counter threats posed by airborne or surface drones, precision-guided munitions, or submarine-fired pop-up missiles, typically attacking just above the sea surface (low elevation, sea skimming) or from high elevation angles (high diving). APAR Blk2 defends against saturation attacks in the highest threat scenarios by supporting many simultaneous AAW and ASuW engagements with both active and semi-active guidance using ICWI. Thales SeaMaster 400 offers a range of 450km while APAR Block 2 can replace illuminators to directly provide guidance for ESSM and SM-2 missiles.

Omega frigate is also available with different radar configurations. A version fitted with a rotating radar (such as the Thales NS200) is also being pitched by Damen.

IndoDefence 2018 Damen Unveils 6000 Tons Omega Frigate 4 Omega scale model on Damen stand at Indodefence 2018. Navy Recognition picture.

Weapons and other sensors
The weapons and sensor suite depends on customers requirements as usual. However the scale model on display at Indodefence shows the Omega frigate fitted with a 127mm main gun by leonardo, a 76mm secondary gun (non penetrating variant) by Leonardo on top of the helicopter hangar, a Rheinmetall Millenium CIWS, 2x Leonardo Hitrole remote weapon stations, 8x Kongsberg NSM anti-ship missiles, 4x Rheinmetall MASS decoy launchers, a Thales Kingklip hull mounted sonar and a Captas-4 variable depth sonar, 4x satellite link antennas and 2x Thales Mirador EO systems. For air defense, the scale model shows 24x VLS cells (likely VL MICA NG for Indonesia or ESSM Block 2 for Netherlands and Belgium).

IndoDefence 2018 Damen Unveils 6000 Tons Omega Frigate 5 Omega scale model on Damen stand at Indodefence 2018. Navy Recognition picture.

Omega frigate /  FFI early specifications:
Length: 144 meters
Breadth: 18.8 meters
Displacement: 6100 tons
Max. speed: 29 knots
Range: 5,000 nautical miles @ 18 knots
Endurance: 30 days at sea
Stabilisation: Rudder roll (similar to LCF)
Crew: 122 sailors (accommodations for up to 160)
Storage space for 3x 12 meters RHIBs
Hangar space for 2x medium lift helicopters and/or UAV.



https://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php/news/defence-news/2018/november-2018-navy-naval-defense-news/6660-indodefence-2018-damen-unveils-6000-tons-omega-frigate.html

 

[Karel Doorman]

As i said(in the Victoria lead)a new CSS(Combat Support Ship )will be build,will look similar to this:

https://youtu.be/_W0FlGLXO9Y

Sorry,it's in Dutch,but you'll get the picure(no punn intended)

 

[Karel Doorman]

Negotiations have started with Chili,to replace the 2 L-class frigates(ex-Dutch)for our 2 remaining M-class frigates.

If all goes to plan(agreement)first ship to be delivered in 2024,last in 2027.

Article is in Dutch(but in short that is what it says) :nod:

Defensie verkoopt m-fregatten aan Chili

https://www.telegraaf.nl/t/3145759/ via @telegraaf

 

[Karel Doorman]

A bit more news about the new upcomming Multi purpose frigates.(not the definite design,btw  ;D )

https://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php/news/defence-news/2019/february/6855-thales-group-awarded-contract-for-the-belgian-dutch-anti-air-frigates.html

and the rivalry for the new subs tightens. rly:


Contenders line up for Netherlands replacement submarines

Industry rivals for the Netherlands’ Walrus-class submarine replacement programme have laid out details of their propositions ahead of the government’s release of the all-important ‘B-letter’ that will start the definition phase of the programme.

France’s Naval Group, Navantia in Spain, Saab Kockums of Sweden, and German shipbuilding group thyssenkrupp Marine Systems are all proposing in-country construction of new non-nuclear boats, and promising significant opportunities for Dutch industry consistent with the government’s recently unveiled Defence Industry Strategy (DIS).

Local media reports suggest that Saab Kockums (teamed with Damen) and Naval Group (in partnership with Royal IHC) are set to be shortlisted to participate in the B-phase.

[Source: Janes.com ]

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

A bit more news about the new upcomming Multi purpose frigates.(not the definite design,btw  ;D )

I sure hope so. Who is the genius who decided to put a five inch gun on top of the helicopter hangar ???

 

[Karel Doorman]

I sure hope so. Who is the genius who decided to put a five inch gun on top of the helicopter hangar ???

Euhm,it's not a 5 inch(127mm),those are 2 76mm sovraponte's.  :tsktsk:  (no penetration),and btw,no exeption, our LCF's all have a Goalkeeper in the same spot. 8)


Above Water Warfare System (AWWS)

The development of AWWS has become necessary because above-water threats are growing exponentially in terms of complexity, coordination and speed. Missiles go up to three times faster than the speed of sound, and possibly even up to five times faster in 2020. Currently used technologies are insufficient to make use of all the new sensor and weapon systems to counter these threats in the future. This new system continuously generates the best solution to counter any incoming threats, whatever the environmental conditions or threat complexity. The system will support the operator in making the right decision at every decisive moment.

When faced with scenarios of several different threats arriving simultaneously and employing complex behaviours, such as very high speed, a human operator will no longer be able to schedule and plan the right defensive priorities effectively and efficiently. However, AWWS will offer the operator information to make the right decisions within seconds, so the ship can protect itself successfully and continue on its mission.

AWWS will consist of a new generation of sensors, coupled with intelligent software that continuously calculates which actions are best suited to tackle each threat detected by radar and other sensors in the right manner. This maximizes the chance of survival, while the crew stays in control.

This system uses the latest sensor technology from Thales to detect and monitor all abovewater threats, including the next-generation, fully digital dual-band X/S radar suite: an integral combination of Active Phased Array Radar (APAR) and Sea Master 400 radar technologies.

https://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php/news/defence-news/2019/february/6855-thales-group-awarded-contract-for-the-belgian-dutch-anti-air-frigates.html

 

[Karel Doorman]

a bit more clarity.(M-class replacement)

Will be based on the Omega design,great looking vessels. (see reply#102(Damen's artist impressions) or link reply#111 to get an idea)

Thales Netherlands and the Defense Materiel Organization (DMO) of the Dutch Navy have concluded an agreement for the development of the combat system of the 4 new frigates for the Dutch and Belgian navies that will replace as many M-class units currently in service. RID was able to participate both in the official ceremony and in the presentations related to the program in favor of the press which were held in Hengelo, in the Netherlands, the main site of Thales Netherlands. The combat system is produced according to a scheme typical of the Royal Netherlands Navy presented as a "Dutch naval ecosystem", in which the Marina's design offices maintain the initiative on the design of the units and actively participate in all the design phases and industrialization. The expected general characteristics of the units were illustrated by Vice-Admiral Arie-Jan de Waard, Director of DMO and by Gerben Edelijn, CEO of Thales Netherlands. The ships will have strong antisubmarine capabilities (ASW), but will have a specific suite - called Above Water Warfare Suite (AWWS) - to combat surface and air threats. Physically, the hull is built on the basis of Damen Shipbuilding's OMEGA frigate project, revisited by the Royal Netherlands Navy's design offices. The main sensors will be grouped in the integrated SEA MAST 400 mast, in which a new dual-band radar in X and S bands will be integrated, probably in the wake of what can be done today with the NS-100/200 family radar. To the sensors in the tower will be added electronic warfare equipment and deception distributors (chaff and flares). The armament has not been specifically discussed, but it is very likely that it will be based on the surface-to-air missiles of the SM-2 family which will guarantee the defense of the area, while for the artillery there are 2 76 mm towers Leonardo SOVRAPONTE, one aft and one in the bow, and 2 remote controlled MARLIN units, also by Leonardo, with a 30 mm machine gun. The anti-ship missiles have not been decided, but given the collaboration with Deutsche Marine to standardize the equipment it is to be assumed that they will opt for the Saab RBS-15 Mk.3 / 4 (cited as an example by Viceammiraglio de Waard during the presentation) . The first unit will be delivered to the Netherlands in 2025, the second in 2026. The Belgian units will follow in 2027 and 2028.

 

[Gorgo]

What about ships like the SIGMA 9113-class corvettes?  Would be perfect to replace the Kingston-class ships, I believe.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

50% bigger, blurs the line between the classes. The Kingston can get into places the larger vessels can't.