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CPC Leadership Discussion 2020-21

CBH99

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I don’t follow the political threads too often, so please forgive if this has already been covered.

But in the Canadian context - I do feel strongly that we do, and should, live in a free country.

And by that, I mean that a woman should have the freedom to choose what medical procedures are in her best interest, abs she should have the freedom to pursue medical procedures regardless of how some other people feel about them.

It’s fine to be pro life, and not personally support the idea of abortions. People have the freedom to think and feel that way.

However, those people’s beliefs and opinions shouldn’t trump those of others.

Using abortion as the main example here - it’s fine for a political party to be pro life, or for a party / individuals to believe abortions are unethical. However, in a free country - people have the right to pursue gender changes, abortions, etc etc - regardless of whether others support it or not.

Isn’t this one of the reasons why it’s so important to seperate church & state?
 

LittleBlackDevil

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See for example Article 62 which purports to protect faith based health care providers from refusing to provide abortions, assisted suicide and euthanasia but also for refusing to refer the patient seeking it (which contradicts the physician's duty to refer when he can't or won't provide a service)

Thin wedges, my friend; thin wedges.

Just going to zero in on this; despite me being a SoCon I don't think you and I are too far apart. But I think that this particular issue is a tricky one. I would argue that the "thin wedge" argument goes both ways, and forcing physicians who believe abortion is murder to recommend someone else to do the job, is a very short step away from forcing those physicians to provide abortions, assisted suicide, etc. We can agree that outlawing abortions outright is not appropriate, but in my view at the very least people should be allowed to do their jobs without violating their conscience. Declining to provide a reference is not the same as preventing someone from accessing the service especially in the age of google and where abortions are readily available.
 

LittleBlackDevil

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Unfortunately, I don't see the party had much choice. Can you imagine the mileage that would have been gained should that have come out during an election? Remember, in politics it doesn't have to be true, it just has to be believable. Was the decision unfair? Yes. Was it necessary? Also yes.
I'm not sure it would have made much difference. Conservatives will always be savaged by the Canadian media regardless of what they do, so might as well act in fairness and if there's a legitimate reason to can Mr. Sloan do it then, but in the mean time don't do things out of fear of the media. Do what's right, not what you think will mollify the media, because the media will never be mollified if you're "right of centre".

In my view the CPC practice of always acting out of fear of the media is a losing tactic.
 

FJAG

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Day 1 of the CPC 2021 Virtual Convention - 5 hours of debates on constitutional amendments - so bored, bored, bored.

Tomorrow 6 hours of debates on the CPC Policy Paper then a speech by the leader. Yeeha!

🍻
 

brihard

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O’Toole’s gonna have to really step it up if he’s gonna get his party anywhere... I like the guy personally, but he’s playing internal games to buttress his safety as leader when what he really needs to worry about is willing the election. Clock’s ticking, and with promises coming now for every willing adult having a vaccination by Canada Day, Trudeau gets to cruise through a ‘normal’ summer into a fall election at this rate.

In the wake of this convention it’ll be interesting to see what Poilievre says and does, as well as if suddenly MacKay gets the blessing to run in Central Nova again.
 

SeaKingTacco

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I think it is a mistake not to have MacKay onboard. He might be a threat to O’Toole eventually, but he is a team player (as evidenced by his support of Harper), is a formidable campaigner and an experienced cabinet minister.

Better to have him on the inside.
 

brihard

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I think it is a mistake not to have MacKay onboard. He might be a threat to O’Toole eventually, but he is a team player (as evidenced by his support of Harper), is a formidable campaigner and an experienced cabinet minister.

Better to have him on the inside.
Agreed. And he’s their best chance to pull badly needed centrist votes from the Liberals.
 

Haggis

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The anti-abortionists and far right of the CPC will be/are attempting to sway the policy discussions. Bringing the perceived "Liberal lite" MacKay back will exacerbate this divide and doom the CPC in the next election. They are likely doomed already. 338Canada shows the Liberals with a 5 to 9% lead today. Next week's polling numbers will be very telling.
 

dapaterson

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O'Toole is doing a fine job of running to be leader of the opposition. If he can't articulate a vision of why he and his party should lead, they likely won't get the chance.

See: 1974.
 

Remius

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I’ve always seen the SOCONS as not going about things like abortion the right way. How hard would it be and how much support could they get if they changed their approach. “We respect the right for women to choose, will not pursue any change to that but we will seek legislation to provide all the funding and tools to encourage women to make the choice to have their children.” So if a woman gets pregnant they will provide all available ressources to them. Parental leave enhancements , child credits, education for youth pregnancies, parental leave for grandparents, financial incentives and easier access to adoption etc etc. But the problem is that would be too “socialist” for them. They need to get off the religious moral side of this and be more pragmatic about how they want to slow abortion rates. It isn’t by denying rights or criminalizing and lecturing people about the evils of abortion that they will make any headway.
 

Good2Golf

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The anti-abortionists and far right of the CPC will be/are attempting to sway the policy discussions. Bringing the perceived "Liberal lite" MacKay back will exacerbate this divide and doom the CPC in the next election. They are likely doomed already. 338Canada shows the Liberals with a 5 to 9% lead today. Next week's polling numbers will be very telling.
They’re dead for another four years...in lieu of Ambrose, who could have taken Trudeau in a heart beat, MacKay was the closest the CPC would have had for a win. The nice frumpy white guy with cute kids growing up will continue to make an unmemorable opposition leader as dapaterson says. Maybe 2025 will have some hope. 🥱
 

SeaKingTacco

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They’re dead for another four years...in lieu of Ambrose, who could have taken Trudeau in a heart beat, MacKay was the closest the CPC would have had for a win. The nice frumpy white guy with cute kids growing up will continue to make an unmemorable opposition leader as dapaterson says. Maybe 2025 will have some hope. 🥱
Maybe. So were the Liberals in 2015 and the Opposition has way more to work with this time.

I am not saying it is a cake walk, but the zeitgeist in Ottawa and suburbs about how awesome the Liberals are (and how bad the Conservatives are) might not be reflective of the rest of the country once the campaign starts.

The Conservatives need a simple, coherent and positive message. They need to hold a few aces up their sleeve to drop in the last week of the campaign against the Liberals (had Scheer held the blackface videos until the final week, the Liberals would not have recovered and he would have been PM).
 

Good2Golf

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Coherence AND relevant to ALL (most) Canadians is key...not just being rock solid to the CPC membership.

I’m doubtful the CPC can look beyond itself for the foreseeable future.
 

dapaterson

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It was. Then it was pulled down.

So they replaced it... with a Russian helicopter in support of O'Toole.

Proving once and for all that you should never trust maritime air ACSOs.
 

Haggis

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T
It was. Then it was pulled down.

So they replaced it... with a Russian helicopter in support of O'Toole.

Proving once and for all that you should never trust maritime air ACSOs.
They must've hired the same ad firm that Heckler and Koch used a few years ago.
1616171390334.png
The Liberal's messaging is centrally controlled, consistent and well crafted, most of the time. Like every other party, they slip up occasionally or have a member who speaks out-of-turn and that ends up on Twitter or Instagram.
 
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FJAG

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Close to six hours of policy debates today -- bored, bored, bored -- and the "Leader's Speech coming up in 10 minutes. We'll see how we do.

The good news about the policy debates is that there wasn't anything new that was SOCON heavy (except maybe opposing extending euthanasia "minors, to people who are not competent, and people who live with psychological suffering" - and the voting results for that haven't been published yet) I certainly got the feeling during our EDA's policy discussions a few weeks back that folks were pulling their heads in on SOCON issues. Which is not to say that there aren't already a few in the policy book from years ago.

🍻
 

FJAG

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Good so far - The Party must change if we are to grow and win.

🍻
 
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