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Canadian Army reactivates elite Assault Pioneers unit

Remius

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Eye In The Sky said:
Not actually providing...yet?  ever?

Units have been identified with some tasks. 

Courses need to be run.  I believe they are starting sometime in Sept. for Recce.  Then they will likely need to send some people on adv. recce.
 

daftandbarmy

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Remius said:
Units have been identified with some tasks. 

Courses need to be run.  I believe they are starting sometime in Sept. for Recce.  Then they will likely need to send some people on adv. recce.

Yes, it will be a long run up to establishing a full capability, likely 3 to 5 years I would guess, at which point we'll struggle to maintain it due to higher than average turnover levels (which is normal) as well as the work of the Good Idea Fairy, which will ensure that we change tack at some point and go back to square one.

What usually happens, as with 'Total Force', is that the Regs open up the CT door and everyone who is qualified quickly jumps through before it closes. My guess is that, once the Reserves spend the time and effort to staff up and fully train and nurture these people/capabilities, the Regs will gratefully accept them all in with open arms, having saved a ton of time and effort. The Reserve units will then go back to zero with few well trained NCMs/ Junior Offrs, and crippled succession plans, and start from square one - like after the AFG commitment.

But that just me....
 

BDTyre

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For those curious, here is what the current Basic Assault Pioneer Course entails:

PO 201 - support rigging tasks
PO 202 - construct vehicle obstacles
PO 203 - construct concrete obstacles
PO 204 - construct field fortifications
PO 205 - use gas powered tools to support operations
PO 206 - perform obstacle clearance
PO 207 - support an assault water crossing
PO 208 - perform the duties of an assistant breacher
Basic Demolition (gives AJBV qualification)
Grenade Destruction - basic
 

Underway

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CanadianTire said:
For those curious, here is what the current Basic Assault Pioneer Course entails:

PO 201 - support rigging tasks
PO 202 - construct vehicle obstacles
PO 203 - construct concrete obstacles
PO 204 - construct field fortifications
PO 205 - use gas powered tools to support operations
PO 206 - perform obstacle clearance
PO 207 - support an assault water crossing
PO 208 - perform the duties of an assistant breacher
Basic Demolition (gives AJBV qualification)
Grenade Destruction - basic

PO 311 - beard grooming
 

PPCLI Guy

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CanadianTire said:
For those curious, here is what the current Basic Assault Pioneer Course entails:

PO 201 - support rigging tasks
PO 202 - construct vehicle obstacles
PO 203 - construct concrete obstacles
PO 204 - construct field fortifications
PO 205 - use gas powered tools to support operations
PO 206 - perform obstacle clearance
PO 207 - support an assault water crossing
PO 208 - perform the duties of an assistant breacher
Basic Demolition (gives AJBV qualification)
Grenade Destruction - basic

As it was written in 2007.  sigh
 

FJAG

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And these Spanish Legion:

028446e875e213c0f73b608bad99a607.jpg


And these from the Queen's Own Rifles and the Royal Regiment of Canada in Toronto:

e29e1f0da4abe646bed36908fac3f048.jpg


Pioneer-Platoon.jpg


:cheers:
 

MedCorps

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CanadianTire said:
For those curious, here is what the current Basic Assault Pioneer Course entails:

PO 201 - support rigging tasks
PO 202 - construct vehicle obstacles
PO 203 - construct concrete obstacles
PO 204 - construct field fortifications
PO 205 - use gas powered tools to support operations
PO 206 - perform obstacle clearance
PO 207 - support an assault water crossing
PO 208 - perform the duties of an assistant breacher
Basic Demolition (gives AJBV qualification)
Grenade Destruction - basic

If anyone is interested the former Basic Assault Pioneer Course (1993) looked like:

PO 401 - Perform Pioneer Field Work
PO 402 - Perform Waterborne Operations
PO 403 - Perform Nuclear and Chemical Decontamination Tasks
PO 404 - Perform Demolition Operations
PO 405 - Perform Booby Trap Operations
PO 406 - Perform Mine Warfare Operations

PO 401 was pretty involved.  It had safety, tools and equipment (chainsaws, pionjar, Stanley HP1), cordage, steel wire rope, block and tackle, measuring gaps, holdfasts and anchorage, construct derricks, shears and gyns, aerial ropeways, rope bridges, corduroy roads with wheel tracks and box culverts, minor road repair (potholes and craters), winter roads and ice bridges, timber frame shelters and bunkers, drainage systems, frame revetments, wire obstacles and road blocks. 

30 days of happiness...

Cheers,

MC
 

OldSolduer

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MedCorps said:
If anyone is interested the former Basic Assault Pioneer Course (1993) looked like:

PO 401 - Perform Pioneer Field Work
PO 402 - Perform Waterborne Operations
PO 403 - Perform Nuclear and Chemical Decontamination Tasks
PO 404 - Perform Demolition Operations
PO 405 - Perform Booby Trap Operations
PO 406 - Perform Mine Warfare Operations

PO 401 was pretty involved.  It had safety, tools and equipment (chainsaws, pionjar, Stanley HP1), cordage, steel wire rope, block and tackle, measuring gaps, holdfasts and anchorage, construct derricks, shears and gyns, aerial ropeways, rope bridges, corduroy roads with wheel tracks and box culverts, minor road repair (potholes and craters), winter roads and ice bridges, timber frame shelters and bunkers, drainage systems, frame revetments, wire obstacles and road blocks. 

30 days of happiness...

Cheers,

MC

One of the best courses I ever took. But that was over 40 years ago - now a "simple charge" to me is lighting firecrackers with my grandkids.
 

BDTyre

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Much of that stuff is retained. We've used chainsaws, pionjar and just wrapped up the HP1 this weekend - we're being tested on it in two weeks time, along with our knots. We've covered steel wire rope, we've built bipods and reinforced tripods, we've covered derricks, shears and gyns. We won't be doing any of the bridging or roadwork. All of our classroom material has been lifted straight out of the Basic Field Engineering PAM and the Engineer DP1 without any modification, so certain portions are irrelevant to us. From what I understand, some of the material removed from the course vs. the prior incarnation was at the behest of the engineers who feel us infantry types might be stealing their jobs. We actually had an Engineering officer unload on a newer Private about how we're destroying their trade and we're just a bunch of wannabes.

MedCorps said:
PO 401 was pretty involved.  It had safety, tools and equipment (chainsaws, pionjar, Stanley HP1), cordage, steel wire rope, block and tackle, measuring gaps, holdfasts and anchorage, construct derricks, shears and gyns, aerial ropeways, rope bridges, corduroy roads with wheel tracks and box culverts, minor road repair (potholes and craters), winter roads and ice bridges, timber frame shelters and bunkers, drainage systems, frame revetments, wire obstacles and road blocks. 

30 days of happiness...

Cheers,

MC
 

OldSolduer

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CanadianTire said:
Much of that stuff is retained. We've used chainsaws, pionjar and just wrapped up the HP1 this weekend - we're being tested on it in two weeks time, along with our knots. We've covered steel wire rope, we've built bipods and reinforced tripods, we've covered derricks, shears and gyns. We won't be doing any of the bridging or roadwork. All of our classroom material has been lifted straight out of the Basic Field Engineering PAM and the Engineer DP1 without any modification, so certain portions are irrelevant to us. From what I understand, some of the material removed from the course vs. the prior incarnation was at the behest of the engineers who feel us infantry types might be stealing their jobs. We actually had an Engineering officer unload on a newer Private about how we're destroying their trade and we're just a bunch of wannabes.

Then that engineer "officer" has the wrong idea. Pioneers can do the jobs that the engineers may not have time for. The two compliment each other.
 

BDTyre

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And that's what we've been preaching. We're an organic asset to be used internally to do jobs that the engineers don't have time or manpower to do.
 

FJAG

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CanadianTire said:
... We actually had an Engineering officer unload on a newer Private about how we're destroying their trade and we're just a bunch of wannabes.

:brickwall:

That's so utterly stupid. Pioneers are a battalion resource while engineers are a brigade resource. It's not a turf bunfight but a mutually beneficial complimentary marriage.

From my arguments in another thread; a university education obviously doesn't necessarily foster intelligence.

:cheers:
 

OldSolduer

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CanadianTire said:
And that's what we've been preaching. We're an organic asset to be used internally to do jobs that the engineers don't have time or manpower to do.
One of the roles of Pioneers is that they are the CO's reserve, at least that's what I recall.
Pioneers are a very useful bunch.
 

The Bread Guy

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CanadianTire said:
... We actually had an Engineering officer unload on a newer Private about how we're destroying their trade and we're just a bunch of wannabes.
Bit of insecurity there if they're complaining to (to oversimplify) apprentices about "destroying the trade"?  :facepalm:
 

McG

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CanadianTire said:
We actually had an Engineering officer unload on a newer Private about how we're destroying their trade and we're just a bunch of wannabes.
Army Reserve?  If yes, the opinion likely stems from PRes Cbt Engr being closer to Pioneers in training and resources than they are to Reg F Cbt Engr.
 

daftandbarmy

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CanadianTire said:
We actually had an Engineering officer unload on a newer Private about how we're destroying their trade and we're just a bunch of wannabes.

That happened to one of my soldiers once. I complained directly to the 'Errant Officers' CO and got a formal apology for my soldier.

Doesn't always work, but it's worth a try!  :nod:
 

BDTyre

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MCG said:
Army Reserve?  If yes, the opinion likely stems from PRes Cbt Engr being closer to Pioneers in training and resources than they are to Reg F Cbt Engr.

MCG - yes, reserve. And I think you're absolutely right in terms of training and resources.
 

LittleBlackDevil

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Known for their specialized training, different grooming standards (they are allowed to wear well-groomed beards), and their axes ...

It makes me sad that beards are no longer unique to Assault Pioneers.

But back when they were the only ones with beards, some of the ones I encountered had rather large, gnarly beards. Well groomed? Well I guess they were combed but some of those guys had Stonewall Jackson style beards (which was cool to me, it made them even more unique).
 
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