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C3 Howitzer Replacement

MilEME09

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Colin P said:
We have the industrial capacity in Canada to make them or any 105mm. The long 155mm may require specialised machinery to produce the barrels.

Only General Dynamics comes to mind with the ability to produce large calibur barrels.
 

Colin Parkinson

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Some barrel porn https://www.defenseworld.net/news/20463/Chrome_Plated_Tubes_For_M777A2_Howitzers#.X6X2t2hKiUk
 

LoboCanada

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Speaking of mortars...

ROYAL MARINES ROLL-OUT NEW VEHICLES ON MORTAR EXERCISES

https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-latest-activity/news/2020/december/03/201203-45-commando-mortars

Royal Marines tested their ability to outfox radar using new all-terrain vehicles to move mortars around Salisbury Plain.

The commandos rolled out CanAm 6x6 vehicles to move mortars and their crews rapidly around the battlefield, avoiding detection and bring down a hail of fire and fury on enemy positions.

Mortars have been a staple of warfare for centuries and they still remain a highly dynamic weapon, which can quickly bring fire support to advancing troops on the frontline.

But they can be vulnerable to increasingly powerful enemy radars which can track them down, prompting a counter-barrage to destroy them if they are too static.

As Royal Marines continue to evolve as part of the Future Commando Force modernisation, everything from kit, clothing, weapons and tactics is coming under the microscope.

As part of that, 45 Commando’s Mortar Troop are scrutinising their primary weapon’s vulnerabilities to powerful Mortar Locating Radar and how they can avoid being discovered.

The CanAms kept them on the move, allowing the troop to maintain vital fire support to comrades before rapidly shifting position and setting up again.

Closely monitoring the trials were 53 Battery Royal Artillery, who use specialist radar to pinpoint enemy artillery, working out how long they the mortars could remain in position before being detected and destroyed.

Captain Dale Martin, Officer Commanding of 45 Commando’s Mortar Troop, said: “It is vital that we understand the threats we face on the modern battlefield.
“Mortars provide essential fire support to commando troops on the ground and are therefore a high-value target for any adversary we may face.

“By training with the Royal Artillery who are actively seeking to find and neutralise us we can begin to understand how to adapt our tactics, techniques and procedures to counter this threat.

Easy, cheap, localized solution to a problem? Reserve artillery units could run these pretty easy, don't cost much in almost every term.

- Company HQ in Quebec, check
- Cheap, ATV/UTV and a lil trailer
- Proven
- Fast
- Easy to operate/maintenance easier, could be done with licenced dealerships closer to Reserve units.

Fact that it avoids radar would be nice in the Pacific.

The Bv206 (and mortar carrier variant) - why don't we have a million of these things? Seem good in the arctic, amphibious, mobile, proven, can't be that expensive can it?


 

daftandbarmy

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LoboCanada said:
Speaking of mortars...

ROYAL MARINES ROLL-OUT NEW VEHICLES ON MORTAR EXERCISES

https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-latest-activity/news/2020/december/03/201203-45-commando-mortars

Easy, cheap, localized solution to a problem? Reserve artillery units could run these pretty easy, don't cost much in almost every term.

- Company HQ in Quebec, check
- Cheap, ATV/UTV and a lil trailer
- Proven
- Fast
- Easy to operate/maintenance easier, could be done with licenced dealerships closer to Reserve units.

Fact that it avoids radar would be nice in the Pacific.

The Bv206 (and mortar carrier variant) - why don't we have a million of these things? Seem good in the arctic, amphibious, mobile, proven, can't be that expensive can it?

The Cabbage Heads also developed an armoured version of the BV called the ‘Viking’ and used it in AFG.
 

reveng

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daftandbarmy said:
The Cabbage Heads also developed an armoured version of the BV called the ‘Viking’ and used it in AFG.

Yup, their ASG was supposedly one of the most deployed elements.

I also like their HMT vehicles...always thought those would have been good for the PRes Armd recce units or Light Inf. Last I heard, the Extenda version was still being looked at by CANSOF as well.

and thanks to LoboCanada for sharing that article, some cool stuff for sure...
 

OldSolduer

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daftandbarmy said:
The Cabbage Heads also developed an armoured version of the BV called the ‘Viking’ and used it in AFG.

WTF is a Cabbage Head?
 

MilEME09

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https://www.defensenews.com/land/2020/12/17/us-army-mobile-howitzer-shoot-off-participants-emerge/

In 2021 the US army will hold evaluations of existing off the shelf systems for a new mobile 155mm arty to support Stryker brigades. Now if I was in NDHQ right now, I'd probably want to ask to send a Canadian delegation to the evaluation to do our own observations. Use the US army as a cheap means to gathering all the data we would need to evaluate a wheeled 155mm solution.
 

FJAG

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MilEME09 said:
https://www.defensenews.com/land/2020/12/17/us-army-mobile-howitzer-shoot-off-participants-emerge/

In 2021 the US army will hold evaluations of existing off the shelf systems for a new mobile 155mm arty to support Stryker brigades. Now if I was in NDHQ right now, I'd probably want to ask to send a Canadian delegation to the evaluation to do our own observations. Use the US army as a cheap means to gathering all the data we would need to evaluate a wheeled 155mm solution.

Yup! Absolutely yup!

I'll go a step further. Essentially our mech brigade groups are Strykerish Brigade Combat Teams. We should just buy the same darn system the US chooses and benefit from all the scales of cost associated by having a large number of these systems in North America (Unless, of course its Brutus, in the form that it is in now - not armoured).

:cdnsalute:
 

suffolkowner

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This article in the drive describes the competition as well and goes into the loading system(s) a little bit as well

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/38271/israeli-serbian-and-swedish-self-propelled-howitzers-are-headed-to-a-u-s-army-shoot-off
 

FJAG

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Just as an aside; the US Army has approximately seven Active Army and two National Guard Stryker BCTs each with a fires battalion of eighteen M777 tubes.

That means that there will be some 162 of these required as well as that there will be some 162 M777 to reallocate. Currently Infantry BCTs have a fires battalion of 6 x M777 and 12 x M119 (105 mm). No idea if there is a plan to redistribute the surplus M777s internally or make them surplus.

:cheers:
 

MilEME09

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FJAG said:
Just as an aside; the US Army has approximately seven Active Army and two National Guard Stryker BCTs each with a fires battalion of eighteen M777 tubes.

That means that there will be some 162 of these required as well as that there will be some 162 M777 to reallocate. Currently Infantry BCTs have a fires battalion of 6 x M777 and 12 x M119 (105 mm). No idea if there is a plan to redistribute the surplus M777s internally or make them surplus.

:cheers:

Buy a mobile 155 for the reg force, purchase extra surplus m777's and shift them all to the PRes. Solve the c3 problem and have more flexibility with our arty.
 

Colin Parkinson

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Except of course moving the Reserves to 155 means they will fire about half as many shells as they do with the 105 and you still need the 105's for saluting and avalanche duty.
 

FJAG

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Colin P said:
Except of course moving the Reserves to 155 means they will fire about half as many shells as they do with the 105 and you still need the 105's for saluting and avalanche duty.

Why can't we make a blank 155 charge?

And yeah. I'd never want to use an M777 at Avcon. But a few C3s and parts would be an easy thing to keep in stock.

:cheers:
 

MilEME09

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Colin P said:
Except of course moving the Reserves to 155 means they will fire about half as many shells as they do with the 105 and you still need the 105's for saluting and avalanche duty.

Shift the LG1 to ceremonial and avalanche duty because at this rate we will be using 81mm mortars for those salutes.
 

FJAG

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Not quite C3 replacement (I wish) but update on US ERCA project:

Army long-range cannon gets direct hit on target 43 miles away
By: Jen Judson

WASHINGTON — The Army’s Extended Range Cannon Artillery (ERCA) system under development hit a target 43 miles away — or 70 kilometers — on the nose at Yuma Proving Ground, Arizona, Dec. 19, using an Excalibur extended-range guided artillery shell, according to the general who is overseeing the service’s Long-Range Precision Fires modernization.

“I don’t think our adversaries have the ability to hit a target on the nose at 43 miles,” Brig. Gen. John Rafferty, who is in charge of the effort, told a small group of reporters in a teleconference immediately following the test.

The Army is racing to extend artillery ranges on the battlefield to take away advantages of high-end adversaries like Russia. The ERCA cannon, when fielded, should be able to fire and take out targets from a position out of the range of enemy systems.

The ERCA cannon takes an M109A7 Paladin Integrated Management (PIM) howitzer chassis and replaces the 39-caliber gun tube with a 58-caliber, 30-foot one. Combined with Raytheon-made Excalibur munitions and an XM1113 using supercharged propellant, the Army has been able to dramatically boost artillery ranges.
...

PJRXIBZAINB7NHQUVGDAXG6TU4.jpg


See rest of article here.

:cheers:

 

daftandbarmy

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FJAG said:
Not quite C3 replacement (I wish) but update on US ERCA project:

PJRXIBZAINB7NHQUVGDAXG6TU4.jpg


See rest of article here.

:cheers:

Excellent. The artillery will now be able to support the Infantry without the need for HTLA.

Think of the money that will save during the next conflict! :)
 

Old Sweat

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daftandbarmy said:
Excellent. The artillery will now be able to support the Infantry without the need for HTLA.

Think of the money that will save during the next conflict! :)

We used to say that we could stay back in the gun park and wear civvies to work.  :rofl:

To get serious for a moment, I wonder what the time of flight for a range of 70 kms is. When I was at the school in the mid-seventies, the T&E section test fire an extended range full bore 155mm round using a US M198. We fired it from just outside the Shirely Road gate down into the bottom SE corner to the ranges for a range of around 40km. Time of flight was about 120 seconds. We had to close the air space over Gagetown up to 100,000 feet for a short period of time.

p.s. To calculate how far up the round rises, square the time of flight and multiply the square by four to get the maximum altitude in feet. (There also is a number for metres, but I am a dinosaur.)
 

Cloud Cover

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Looks like the Europeans are trying out a 155mm on the Boxer platform and this thing looks like a Naval gun!

https://www.kmweg.com/systems-products/wheeled-vehicles/artillery/rch-155/

 

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Colin Parkinson

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I can see that flopped onto it's side quite frequently and imagine loading it on a trailer or rail car would be fun. Wonder if it would fit through a rail tunnel on a regular car?
 
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