Michael Dorosh
Army.ca Veteran
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chanman said:
I did; it was disturbing with a tinge of schadenfreude for good measure.
AGAIN With the "Poor Bears" and Bearskins in UK
- Thread starter Gunner
- Start date
I did; it was disturbing with a tinge of schadenfreude for good measure.
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Back at 'er, shared in accordance with the "fair dealing" provisions, Section 29, of the Copyright Act - http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/info/act-e.html#rid-33409
Cruelty row over British Army bearskins
This is London, 14 Sept 06
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23366804-details/Cruelty+row+over+British+Army+bearskins/article.do
The British Army was last night condemned for fuelling a fur trade which leaves baby bears orphaned.
Animal rights groups criticised officials for buying the left over skin of black bears from tourist-hunters in Canada. In recent years thousands of American hunters have crossed the border to shoot bears for pleasure. The Army has then been buying the fur to use in making the famous bearskin hats.
Animal welfare groups criticised the army for demanding that the fur for Buckingham Palace guardsmen is culled in springtime when it is at its thickest.
milnewstbay editorial comment: Further rationale for the reinstatement of the spring bear hunt in Ontario?
This is also the time for breeding and thousands of baby bears are left orphaned after their mother's are shot by tourist hunters. What the hunters leave behind is sold on to the British Army.
A spokeswoman for Peta (People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals) said: "It is inexcusable. Tradition has never been a means of justifying cruelty.
milnewstbay editorial comment: as opposed to P-eople for the E-ating of T-asty A-nimals?
"The Ministry of Defence has been dragging its feet for years and this organisation which has so much money at its disposal, and can launch a missile even, can't find a replacement material for fur. These hats are not bullet-proof. They are purely ornamental."
She added: "Fur farming has been banned in the UK because people do not like it. Yet tax payers money is being used to buy these hats even though the public doesn't agree with them.
"There is no kind way of skinning an animal whether it is a fox or bear. The British Army could save hundreds of bears every year."
A spokesman for Tony's Cub Rescue Centre which tries to save baby bears left orphaned in British Columbia said many of the bears whose pelts are sold on die slow deaths after being inexpertly shot by tourists.
He said: "We only save a very small percentage." It was also revealed that bears are enticed with meat, doughnuts and even honey in order to make them easier for paying hunters to shoot. The spokesman added: "It is like shooting fish in a barrel."
The British Army has spent £321,000 ($CDN 673,808; $US 602,247) in the last five years on 431 bearskin "caps" at the cost of the tax payer. Last night a spokesman for the MoD said the bear fur trade was a matter for the Canadian government. The MoD has been researching the use of fake fur for bearskin hats for nearly 20 years but has not as yet found one it considers suitable. The standard bearskin of the British Foot Guards is 18 inches tall, weighs one and a half pounds and is made from the fur of the Canadian black bear. Some which are still in use are over 100 years old. The fur of an adult black bear is used to make one complete cap.
Cruelty row over British Army bearskins
This is London, 14 Sept 06
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23366804-details/Cruelty+row+over+British+Army+bearskins/article.do
The British Army was last night condemned for fuelling a fur trade which leaves baby bears orphaned.
Animal rights groups criticised officials for buying the left over skin of black bears from tourist-hunters in Canada. In recent years thousands of American hunters have crossed the border to shoot bears for pleasure. The Army has then been buying the fur to use in making the famous bearskin hats.
Animal welfare groups criticised the army for demanding that the fur for Buckingham Palace guardsmen is culled in springtime when it is at its thickest.
milnewstbay editorial comment: Further rationale for the reinstatement of the spring bear hunt in Ontario?
This is also the time for breeding and thousands of baby bears are left orphaned after their mother's are shot by tourist hunters. What the hunters leave behind is sold on to the British Army.
A spokeswoman for Peta (People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals) said: "It is inexcusable. Tradition has never been a means of justifying cruelty.
milnewstbay editorial comment: as opposed to P-eople for the E-ating of T-asty A-nimals?
"The Ministry of Defence has been dragging its feet for years and this organisation which has so much money at its disposal, and can launch a missile even, can't find a replacement material for fur. These hats are not bullet-proof. They are purely ornamental."
She added: "Fur farming has been banned in the UK because people do not like it. Yet tax payers money is being used to buy these hats even though the public doesn't agree with them.
"There is no kind way of skinning an animal whether it is a fox or bear. The British Army could save hundreds of bears every year."
A spokesman for Tony's Cub Rescue Centre which tries to save baby bears left orphaned in British Columbia said many of the bears whose pelts are sold on die slow deaths after being inexpertly shot by tourists.
He said: "We only save a very small percentage." It was also revealed that bears are enticed with meat, doughnuts and even honey in order to make them easier for paying hunters to shoot. The spokesman added: "It is like shooting fish in a barrel."
The British Army has spent £321,000 ($CDN 673,808; $US 602,247) in the last five years on 431 bearskin "caps" at the cost of the tax payer. Last night a spokesman for the MoD said the bear fur trade was a matter for the Canadian government. The MoD has been researching the use of fake fur for bearskin hats for nearly 20 years but has not as yet found one it considers suitable. The standard bearskin of the British Foot Guards is 18 inches tall, weighs one and a half pounds and is made from the fur of the Canadian black bear. Some which are still in use are over 100 years old. The fur of an adult black bear is used to make one complete cap.
Simple solution, get them a free ticket to Abitibi, give them each a jar of honey and tell them to yell "Here Winny- Winny" - everything will then be fine - bears will be fed and protesters will be very happy knowing that the bears aren't hungry.. anymore - see, simple solution...
RangerRay
Sr. Member
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Even though black bear populations are very high, and the respective provincial governments manage hunts for their populations, I would hardly call it a "cull". Culls are often conducted by wildlife officials and they kill as many animals as they allot for a given population. In regulated hunts, wildlife officials may set a number of animals to be allowed to be hunted either through the issuing of limited entry tags or by monitoring open seasons. But many times, there are not enough hunters for the allowable harvest. For example, a Management Unit may have an allowable hunt of 20 bears, but it does not mean 20 bears will be shot. More often than not, only 10 bears will be harvested in that Management Unit.
Listening to Europeans talk about forestry or wildlife issues in Canada makes blood shoot out from my eyes! It's like listening to NDPers talk about defence matters! :rage:
Listening to Europeans talk about forestry or wildlife issues in Canada makes blood shoot out from my eyes! It's like listening to NDPers talk about defence matters! :rage:
- Reaction score
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Can you say "renewable resource", PETA?
Guess it's too cool for the naked demo, unlike the LAST time (Army.ca thread) this popped up in the UK media.
Shared in accordance with the "fair dealing" provisions, Section 29, of the Copyright Act.
Bears are still dying to make new hats for the Guards
Marie Woolf, Political Editor, Independent Online (UK), 14 Jan 07
Article Link
The Ministry of Defence has spent more than £320,000 ($CDN 733,000; $US626,000) over the past five years on ceremonial hats for guardsmen, each made from a single bearskin.
The policy has caused an outcry among animal welfare campaigners who say using synthetic fur would be more humane and far cheaper.
The Ministry of Defence has promised to phase out ceremonial bearskin caps following complaints that killing wild bears is cruel and unnecessary.
Fur used in busby hats worn by the Royal Horse Artillery has already been replaced with synthetic fur, following protests. But animal welfare campaigners accused the Government of dragging its feet over the guardsmen's hats.
They said that synthetic alternatives presented to the Ministry of Defence had been rejected on aesthetic grounds, including that they were not lustrous enough.
Animal welfare groups have said the use of ceremonial bearskin caps, worn by Buckingham Palace Guards and during the Trooping of the Colour, fuels the hunting of wild bears in Canada and the United States. The reported cost over five years represents at least 250 dead bears.
Campaigners say the hunters have been known to kill mothers with cubs, leaving the orphans to die, and to seriously wound bears leaving them unable to hunt and condemning them to starve to death.
"Tradition is no excuse for outright cruelty," said a spokesman for Peta, the animal welfare campaign group. "Intelligent, curious black bears are often shot several times before they die. Some of these bears escape wounded and face a slow death in the woods from blood loss, gangrene, infection, dehydration or starvation."
Prince Charles and the Queen have been "tailed" by a protester in a bear suit for two years in protest at the use of wild bear pelts.
Sources close to the Ministry of Defence said that they are trying to reduce the number of pelts used and are increasingly refurbishing existing hats. But they said the military would continue buying the bearskin hats until a suitable alternative is found.
Guess it's too cool for the naked demo, unlike the LAST time (Army.ca thread) this popped up in the UK media.
Shared in accordance with the "fair dealing" provisions, Section 29, of the Copyright Act.
Bears are still dying to make new hats for the Guards
Marie Woolf, Political Editor, Independent Online (UK), 14 Jan 07
Article Link
The Ministry of Defence has spent more than £320,000 ($CDN 733,000; $US626,000) over the past five years on ceremonial hats for guardsmen, each made from a single bearskin.
The policy has caused an outcry among animal welfare campaigners who say using synthetic fur would be more humane and far cheaper.
The Ministry of Defence has promised to phase out ceremonial bearskin caps following complaints that killing wild bears is cruel and unnecessary.
Fur used in busby hats worn by the Royal Horse Artillery has already been replaced with synthetic fur, following protests. But animal welfare campaigners accused the Government of dragging its feet over the guardsmen's hats.
They said that synthetic alternatives presented to the Ministry of Defence had been rejected on aesthetic grounds, including that they were not lustrous enough.
Animal welfare groups have said the use of ceremonial bearskin caps, worn by Buckingham Palace Guards and during the Trooping of the Colour, fuels the hunting of wild bears in Canada and the United States. The reported cost over five years represents at least 250 dead bears.
Campaigners say the hunters have been known to kill mothers with cubs, leaving the orphans to die, and to seriously wound bears leaving them unable to hunt and condemning them to starve to death.
"Tradition is no excuse for outright cruelty," said a spokesman for Peta, the animal welfare campaign group. "Intelligent, curious black bears are often shot several times before they die. Some of these bears escape wounded and face a slow death in the woods from blood loss, gangrene, infection, dehydration or starvation."
Prince Charles and the Queen have been "tailed" by a protester in a bear suit for two years in protest at the use of wild bear pelts.
Sources close to the Ministry of Defence said that they are trying to reduce the number of pelts used and are increasingly refurbishing existing hats. But they said the military would continue buying the bearskin hats until a suitable alternative is found.
George Wallace
Army.ca Dinosaur
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It is a wonder that this twit hasn't been shot and turned into a Guardsmans Cap too...... ;D
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George Wallace said:
Perhaps the protester's pelt, too, "had been rejected on aesthetic grounds, including that they were not lustrous enough."
niner domestic
Sr. Member
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Oh dear if only these groups really understood the fur trade and furrier business. They would probably go find something else to protest. For example, when ever one sees an advertisement by a store that is selling off fur coats, hats etc at ridiculously low prices (ie, mink coats for under a thousand bucks). Those particular coats are recycled and refurbished used coats that have either come from being trade ins or coats that have been recovered from being abandoned in cold storage. What the consumer is paying for is the labour to refurbish them not the costs of the pelts. A good furrier can take a 30 year old fur coat, hat and if the skin's dressing is still decent, can refurbish them to look like a brand new coat, they will use salvaged pelts from other coats to complete the remake. Was an animal trapped? Sure, 30 years ago. Same goes for the military headdresses, there are very few of them that are made from fresh trapped pelts/skins.
What has always made fur a valuable commodity is that if taken care of properly (ie, not allowed to be store in plastic or allowed to get buggy) is the ability of it to be recycled for upwards of 60 years, it never loses it's market value. I defy any of the anti-trapping/bleeding hearts to examine my fur coats and tell me if it contains new pelts or pelts that are 20-30 years old with any accuracy. (I actually did have one tree hugger/animal saviour look at my coat and couldn't even tell me a) the species of fur, b) the age of the pelts or; c) how many times my coats has been refurbished to update it's look.) Most trappers and pelt dressers used a distinguishing mark on the pelt - if you know your symbols you can sometimes tell whose pelt is it and by extension guesstimate the age. Sometimes the mark gets cut off in the blocking of the coat.
Why isn't this common information used in a counter argument to the PETA folks? The fur trade has been saying this for years, but it's not sexy media information as it makes too much sense and not at all the controversy the media and PETA would like all to believe.
My family has had active trap lines for centuries, I know how much is pulled off the lines each year ( I have detailed records of all our lots and strings that go to auction). I have however, seen my great grandfather's mark on pelts that showed up in a coat last year that was being sold for 9000. My great grandfather died in 1944 - so 60+ year old pelts are still being used. (and yes, my own coat has some of his pelts in it as well - they used to be in my grandmother's coat).
As far as the busby is concerned, recycled, other bruin species pelts that have been dressed and dyed to match have all been used over the years. So unless orgs like PETA can show me from start to finish that these headdresses are all made from freshly trapped black bear skins, without one single recycled and reclaimed pelt being used, I'm going to have to question their quest for sensationalism and shock value type of media releases.
What has always made fur a valuable commodity is that if taken care of properly (ie, not allowed to be store in plastic or allowed to get buggy) is the ability of it to be recycled for upwards of 60 years, it never loses it's market value. I defy any of the anti-trapping/bleeding hearts to examine my fur coats and tell me if it contains new pelts or pelts that are 20-30 years old with any accuracy. (I actually did have one tree hugger/animal saviour look at my coat and couldn't even tell me a) the species of fur, b) the age of the pelts or; c) how many times my coats has been refurbished to update it's look.) Most trappers and pelt dressers used a distinguishing mark on the pelt - if you know your symbols you can sometimes tell whose pelt is it and by extension guesstimate the age. Sometimes the mark gets cut off in the blocking of the coat.
Why isn't this common information used in a counter argument to the PETA folks? The fur trade has been saying this for years, but it's not sexy media information as it makes too much sense and not at all the controversy the media and PETA would like all to believe.
My family has had active trap lines for centuries, I know how much is pulled off the lines each year ( I have detailed records of all our lots and strings that go to auction). I have however, seen my great grandfather's mark on pelts that showed up in a coat last year that was being sold for 9000. My great grandfather died in 1944 - so 60+ year old pelts are still being used. (and yes, my own coat has some of his pelts in it as well - they used to be in my grandmother's coat).
As far as the busby is concerned, recycled, other bruin species pelts that have been dressed and dyed to match have all been used over the years. So unless orgs like PETA can show me from start to finish that these headdresses are all made from freshly trapped black bear skins, without one single recycled and reclaimed pelt being used, I'm going to have to question their quest for sensationalism and shock value type of media releases.
- Reaction score
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- Points
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I live in a part of the world where we see bears (once in a while, on the university campus in town), and I didn't know about pelt recycling, either - thx, 9-D.
George Wallace
Army.ca Dinosaur
- Reaction score
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Recce By Death said:
Actually, my mother had some of her old coats made into Teddy Bears for us, her Grandchildren and others as gifts.......Teddy Bears with real fur.
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- Points
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Bumped with the latest shocking (alleged) "revelation" via an animal rights group!
It's a sustainable resource, and we wouldn't want to be using alternatives made with demon oil or byproducts, would we, PETA & Co.? :facepalm:
More from MSM here.
It's a sustainable resource, and we wouldn't want to be using alternatives made with demon oil or byproducts, would we, PETA & Co.? :facepalm:
Oldgateboatdriver
Army.ca Veteran
- Reaction score
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Maybe we can dump a few of these activists up here in the woods in Abitibi. Then they'll find out you can't throw a stick in any direction without hitting one of the damn things (who then starts gunning for you ).
Perhaps they would also feel better if they knew that most of the trapping/hunting for furs up there is done by natives to earn a living.
). Perhaps they would also feel better if they knew that most of the trapping/hunting for furs up there is done by natives to earn a living.
George Wallace
Army.ca Dinosaur
- Reaction score
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milnews.ca said:
WAIT! Are you saying that PETA & Co. are all supporters of the demon OIL INDUSTRY? Words escape me. [
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They just don't know it yet ....George Wallace said:WAIT! Are you saying that PETA & Co. are all supporters of the demon OIL INDUSTRY? Words escape me. [
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