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6 Jan 2020 U.S. Events (Split from A Deeply Fractured US)

brihard

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This was an insurrection, full stop. A short and failed one, but it was an attempt to use force to subvert the legitimate mechanisms of government, in this case specifically to attempt to reverse the results of an election. "Insurrection" has been used today by a wide range of senior American political leaders on both sides of the aisle.

US federal law defines the offense of 'Seditious conspiracy' as such:
18 U.S. Code § 2384 - Seditious conspiracy said:
If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.

That's what happened. America's legislature was engaged in one of it's most essential - if usually pro forma - functions; confirming the results of the democratic election for president. Violent rioters breached the Capitol by force to stop this from happening. IEDs were emplaced and rendered safe. The legislative chambers were briefly occupied by those who forced their way in. This is sedition and insurrection. It has been put down.

It was a frightening and dangerous day for America's democracy. Fortunately, the Senate has reconvened, and as Vice President Pence put it, they will "finish the People's business".

In the wake of this there will be an investigation into the police killing of one of the attackers; there will be investigations into the security breach itself, into who instigated and incited this. There will be tremendous political fallout for the Republicans. What this all look like remains to be seen.

Tensions are still high on the streets of America and other protests are ongoing elsewhere. I hope nobody else dies.
 

lenaitch

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I find it strange that people can seemingly push their way into what I can only imagine should have been a pretty secure building.

It's not as if the electoral vote thing was a surpsie, I assume someone in a position of authority must have considered this event. Yet here they are.

Is this sort of how police will innocently leave a police cruiser in the path of a protesting crowd which surprise surprise is set on fire (and recorded then played on the news)?

Seems like there's more security at a Taylor swift concert.
DC has an astonishing number of jurisdictions, even in US terms, which could hinder coordination. Although having said that, this isn't their first rodeo. I can also envision the Capitol Police being under some level of 'guidance' from the Speakers, perhaps not to the extent that our parliamentary or legislative security are, but still possible to have been given direction not to turn the place into a preemptive armed camp - 'we are not hiding from the people' sort of thing. It still doesn't preclude why personnel weren't squirrelled away nearby out of sight. If this had have been Toronto, the small legislative security service would have been lost in a sea of Toronto cops within minutes.
 

Jarnhamar

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Their was also a stark contrast and differences in the escalation of force by law enforcement.
I see what you mean, the people who busted into capitol hill didn't precede it with burning cars, looting buildings and assaulting people.

It appears in this instance the police opened the gates.
 

Colin Parkinson

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The woman who was shot almost certainly by security was trying to climb over a barricade, considering it was a mix of protesters and police in that location behind her, that was risky shot. The police, security and protesters worked together to attend to her wound, sadly to no avail.

Warning graphic video of the event https://banned.video/watch?id=5ff63502f23a18318ceb28a7
 

Colin Parkinson

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I would call the BLM/George Floyd/occupations protest a insurrection based on numerous locations, prevention of government services and the displacement of government control in large areas. This was a protest and achieved their primary goal which was a symbolic halting of the vote, briefly. This is not a threat to the government, but it is a message. The question is will the ruling elites listen? I doubt it.
 

CBH99

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This "crowd" or "mob" is truly it's own worst enemy, as most are. They are the ones storming the capitol, and we all know that not everybody in the mob are there behaving the same or looking for the same outcome. These officers are in one hell of a situation... a heated, angry mob storming the Capitol building on one hand, a dying woman on the other, while also struggling to defuse a situation which isn't about to be defused with the folks there right now.

It's one thing to read a 'protester was shot by police' and think, under the circumstances (for me anyways) -- "Well, yeah...under those circumstances, I would think getting shot by police was decently likely. Duh!"

Another to have up close footage of her dying moments... that really sucks :(
 

Jarnhamar

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Police opening gates to let protesters pass (lol love the "Serbians")

An event which I doubt a single American would have expected to go off quietly, without opposition.

Months to plan and prepare.

An incredibly light police presence in the ground after months (a few years?) of protests.

A couple examples already of people storming government assembleys.

Police (elledgedly) opening the gates to let protests in to the very lightly guarded highly emotional event.


Seems a bit planned to me.
 
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MedCorps

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A slightly different tangent on today events. Things that I found interesting:

1) Someone had the foresight to put a gas mask under the chair of each person in the chamber in case of emergency. Looks like more of an escape hood, but good foresight.

2) The tape (red / white) on the front slide of the pistol of the police (not in uniform) protecting the chamber behind the barricade. I suspect this is a IFF thing, but then again it might just be a way to pick out your pistol in the weapons room.

3) That all members in the elected chamber have identifying lapel pins and their staff have different pins for quick identification outside of normal ID passes. There was a ex-military Senator telling his colleagues to take off the pins as the protesters (or terrorists?) were trying to come through the door.

4) If I am shot in the face, I hope to God one of you has TCCC and remembers your drills as does not let me die on my back while my airway fills with my own blood. Assuming my injury was survivable. See: https://streamja.com/LMd0A.

Interesting afternoon.

MC
 

Colin Parkinson

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CBH99 tried to quote you, didn't work. Yea the police didn't look like they were interested in stopping the crowd, likley they have a low morale thanks to the lack of support by their political leadership. I suspect security panicked when she tried to climb over the barricade, had that crowd been a real threat the cop with the AR would have already been dead as he was more less surrounded. The only good thing to come out of that shooting is how protestors and police put aside their positions to help her. My guess that officer who pulled the trigger is going to face disciplinary action and whole lot of life long guilt.
 

Fishbone Jones

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I wonder where all these politicians were when antifa and blm were burning cities and killing people.
 

Jarnhamar

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The woman who was shot almost certainly by security was trying to climb over a barricade, considering it was a mix of protesters and police in that location behind her, that was risky shot. The police, security and protesters worked together to attend to her wound, sadly to no avail.

Warning graphic video of the event https://banned.video/watch?id=5ff63502f23a18318ceb28a7
Those people are tripping over themselves trying to tape the woman as she's dying. Disgusting. Must take a lot of discipline and professionalism for the police not to snatch the phones and hit the owners with them.
 

Kilted

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Those people are tripping over themselves trying to tape the woman as she's dying. Disgusting. Must take a lot of discipline and professionalism for the police not to snatch the phones and hit the owners with them.
They showed a lot of discipline today, the fact that it appears at this point that only one shot was fired during the entire situation.
 

brihard

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I would call the BLM/George Floyd/occupations protest a insurrection based on numerous locations, prevention of government services and the displacement of government control in large areas. This was a protest and achieved their primary goal which was a symbolic halting of the vote, briefly. This is not a threat to the government, but it is a message. The question is will the ruling elites listen? I doubt it.
"Government" is not just a bunch of legislators. It's not just a physical space in which they meet. It's the institutions, processes, procedures and mechanisms that allow for law to be created, actioned, and enforced. The laws that define how that power is handed from administration to administration are among the core underpinnings of any nation with the rule of law. There's a reason these are procedures that are often constitutionally enshrined.

The Capitol was where this happened. The legislators were those who were at physical risk. But the objective of the attack was the process that was taking place. This was an attempt to force not a pause but a halt to the peaceful transition of power to the winner of the election. While I tend to be quick to sneeringly dismiss such things at the small scale as mere tantrums, this was much more than that. This was an assault on democracy. Trump has incited and enabled this. What did you think "stand back and stand by" meant? What do you think the consequences are when the president himself spends weeks relentlessly lying about the election being stolen?

The protests over the past year have been a threat to peace and order at the local level, but they in no way have been a fundamental threat to the health of America's democracy. There were many violent and criminal actions, and they were part of an effort to demand that legislators debate and pass laws to achieve their ends. This, however, was such a threat. This was a rejection of the proper processes under the rule of law for contesting and adjudicating electoral disputes over which the courts have spoken literally 62 times plus appeals.

A line has been crossed and things flirted with that are now suddenly within the realm of the possible for these malignant malcontents. Not one of the grievances has gone away. None of the body armour or rifles sitting in basements have been discarded. There are literally people who in certain corners of social media have been pleading with Trump for weeks to 'give the word' and they will rise up violently. The police trying to hold off the riot today were being told "you're lucky we didn't bring our ARs". There was nothing I saw today that convinces me that some of those people, if they could have gotten access to legislators, would not have done them physical harm.

Enough is enough. The experiment of electing, empowering, and enabling Trump has failed. Critical damage was inflicted on the health of America's peaceful political institutions today. If you're unwilling to see the distinction between this and other actions of violent social unrest, that is a wilful failure of intellectual honesty on your part.
 
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Colin Parkinson

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brihard, we have to agree to disagree, I see these as a symbolic protest, there was no way that this could bring down the government. However the large scale riots and protests are a far more dangerous thing as they erode the benefits of democracy and in many of those areas government is becoming irrelevant as it can not administer it's services and cannot enforce it's mandate on a day to day basis.
 

Colin Parkinson

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Those people are tripping over themselves trying to tape the woman as she's dying. Disgusting. Must take a lot of discipline and professionalism for the police not to snatch the phones and hit the owners with them.
There were at least 2 officers and 2 protestors rendering aid, I doubt any of the others even grasped how serious the wound was.
 

boot12

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There are literally people who in certain corners of social media have been pleading with Trump for weeks to 'give the word' and they will rise up violently. The police trying to hold off the riot today were being told "you're lucky we didn't bring our ARs". There was nothing I saw today that convinces me that some of those people, if they could have gotten access to legislators, would not have done them physical harm.

The photo of this intruder carrying flex cuffs along with FBI confirmation of at least two explosive devices in separate areas of DC today certainly supports your point:

cuffs.JPG
 
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Jarnhamar

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It looked like she was shot and convulsing involuntarily on the ground, and people were trying to video tape it.
I'd say you see the same scene play out all over North America,every day.
Video taping people suffering seems to be a staple of our society now.

I think there's a lot of decisions made that need to be investigated.
 

Colin Parkinson

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The woman who was shot was Ashli Babbit, a 14-year veteran, who served four tours with the US Air Force, and was a high level security official throughout her time in service.
 
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