Many of the treads deal with different aspects of this, but i'd like to bring them all together. The future of the army should not be decided peice meal, but it often seems that is the way it is done. We bought the LAV III for the Inf, but don't yet know the role that the Armour will be playing in 10 years!

Due to the unpredictability of the future, it is impossible to predict what specific tasks the army may be faced with. For this reason alone, I would argue that the multipurpose force must still be the roll of our armed forces. The world today is in need of many more peacekeepers than are availabe. Several large aid to civlil power operations have demonstrated the need for an adaptable organization to come the populations aid when tragedy and the unpredictable strike. And, you never now when, who, or if you will be fighting, nor can you know the intensity. By the time any of these factors become predictable, it is already too late to develope a new force to accomodate them. That force must be in existance aleady.

Chimo!

Chimo!

The 1994 Defence White paper retains many admirable qualties that a relevant for today and the future, but in my opinion a new white paper should be written to guide the changes that the CF should undergo. The key element of any new paper, should maintain the CF's "multi-purpose combat capable" element. As to what level of multi-purpose and combat-capable force should the CF maintain is the most important question.

The CF should no longer try to do everything as we currently are. I believe the CF should focus on several niche capabilities for combat operations. General conventional war (ie. WWII) is highly unlikely to occur, not that it may never occur, but the prospect in the near future is basically nil, and unlikely at best in the long term. Limited conventional wars and low intensity conflicts are highly likely to occur and in fact there are many occurring right now. Canada should seek to provide a capability to provide special niche capabilities for any type of coalition force operation/war that might occur. The financial realities of the Canadian military will never allow the CF to train properly for a general conventional war or nuclear war. Those two categories require enormous resources and indeed only the United States is likely to be able to financially fight a general conventional war. This is not a defeatist attitude, but a realistic attitude that seeks to enhance the CF, by not giving in to thetypical Canadian "we can fight in any manner, regardless of equipment limitations if we just train and/or fight hard enough and we will not suffer negative consequences" attitude.

Canada should provide a medium armoured wheeled force and forego heavy armoured forces that can not be adequately equipped or trained without a massive Canadian culture shift toward the military. I propose that the regular and reserve army be organised into eight combat brigade groups of two types. First the regualr army would field three Combat Mechanized Brigade Groups (CMBG) of approxmately 4000 soldiers utilizing the LAV III as its baseline and sole amroured vehicle with a number of supporting wheeled vehicles. Each of these brigades would be statiioned entirely at CFB Edmonton, BFC St. Hubert, and CTC Gagetown. The second type of brigade would be the Combat Light Brigade Group (CLBG) of approximatley 3000 soldiers. The regular army CLBG, stationed at CFB Petawawa, would be entirely air mobile and all tactical helicopter assets would be stationed at CFB Petawawa with the exception of the training squadron which would be stationed at Gagetown. The reserves would have four CLBGs one for LFWA, LFCA, LFQA, and LFAA. This would entail a dramatic reorganization of the militia system and a reduction in a number of regiments, particularlyin the infantry. All people who are die hard regiment proponents relax only a relatively small number of regiments would be cut. Each CLBG would have three infantry battalions of around 500+ troops divided into three companies, a combat support company, a headquarters company, and a battalion headquarters. Each infantry company would be a reserve regiment located at one or more locations in close proximity to each other, such as the GGFG and Cameron Highlanders of Ottawa. In addition each company would also have one of the combat support company's three platoons co-located with the infantry company (it's company headquarters would be co-located with one of its platoons). The CLBGs would also have a brigade recce squadron mounted on HUMVEEs or similar with the .50 Cals and C-6s. The Brigade would have an artillery and combat engineer regimet (battalions), each with three companies and a headquarters company and a regiment headquarters. Also the CLBG would have a service battalion, an intellegence company, an air defence battery, and a brigade headquarters, which would be staffed by regular army personel and located at the same base as the regular army units. Regt. COs and RSMs would become
Majors and MWOs. But would operationnaly be only OCs (OICs) and CSMs. This is a basic structure of the army that I advocate, because it focuses on quality of soldiers rather than upping paper numbers and on simplifying LFC structure and reducing overhead costs.

I do have a number of specific points that I have mentioned briefly that I would like to clarify. I have said that the regular CLBG should be air mobile by helicopter and not a parachut unit, although it may maintain parachute recce platoons, for a specific reason. Para operations are effective only when able to properly support them, the CF does not and will not acquire the necessary capabilities to support an effective para operation (dropping a brigade would entail the entire CF Herc fleet and would require more to provde supplies and support). In addtion, helicopters are a battlefield necessity now whereas the mass para formation is not. As such, improving the tactical helicopter capability is far more effective. The location of all tactical helicopters at CFB Petawawa is ideal, because in the event of a national emergency the helicopters are able to Herc deploy or self-deploy to almlost anywhere in Canada in less than a day, more than acceptable. In international deployments scenarios again the the Hercs from Trento are close by. This enables the brigade to train effecitively.

The Leopard C-2s will be retained in three small training units (most will go into storage) at each of the regular army bases to provide the CF with a tank force to train against and in to retain tank knowlegde to a limited extent.

The primary element in the army should be three CMBG's located in Edmonton, Pet, and Valcartie. The CMBG's would be identical, and evolved from the current 20 CMBG model. The tank Regiments would be replaced with Cavalry regiments consisting of a Recce Sqn (no longer independant), and AT Sqn, and a Heavy Recce Sqn. The Inf Bn's would be expanded to include a DF Sup Coy, and an AD Pl. Artillery regiments would loose a Bty of guns but gain two Btys of HIMARS. CSS would be altered as needed to accomodate the new structure. All elements of the CMBG's would be full mechanised in LAV III or other suitable vehicles.

In addition to the CMBG's there would be two independant Battle Groups. An Airmobile Battle Group based on a light Inf Bn with Artillery, Engineer, and Cavalry support. The Cavalry would be in the form of LUVW's for recce and AT roles. This BG would be located in Shilo and have an attack helicopter Sqn and logistical helicoters to transport the entire BG.

A Heavy BG would be responsible for maintaining the doctrine and skills required for Canadians to employ heavy armour. The BG would be based on a 20 CMBG Tank Regiment with two rifle Coys, a Combat Sup Coy, Artillery, and Engineers attached. The BG would be based out of Gagetown, and one of its secondary roles would be to provide a heavy enemy force for the CMBG's to Train against.

The reserve CBG's would be maintian, however all elite roles (parachute taskings etc) would be stopped. Regiments would be structured as Coy and not Bn (unless said Regiment were capable of sustaining multilple Coys at a health strength). Each Regiment would also be tasked with a role of an Combat Sup Coy Pl. Reaserve "Tank" regiments would be equiped with the same vehicle employed by the DF Sup Coy's and The Cougars would be refitted with LAV25 turrets for the reserve Recce Regiments. Each ATC would maintain a Bn's worth of AFV for the reserves to train with. These vehicles would consist of Cougars, Grizzlys and Bissons (which would be replaced entirely by the LAV III for the Reg force).

For the Armchair Generals, I have below a list of topics from which either myself, or others have made the arguments which form the basis of my above vision.

Canada should adopt the LAV III as its sole armoured vehicle
Recce Doctrine
What should the role of reserves be?
TOWED OR SELF PROPELLED - What does Canada still require?
M-109 replacement...
AIR DEFENCE
Air Defence
Should the CF retain MBTs?
Resurrect the Airborne Regiment?

The visions only problem, is money. Maybe one day.

Chimo!

quote:

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Peggy Parry-Bran stated: Granted the Navy (such as it is) resides in Victoria but they aren't going to be of much help to us in the event of a disaster
and it's one heck of a long way to Edmonton.

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There are lots of military units within British Columbia: MARPAC, 39 CBG, Comox, ASU Chilliwack, CFAD Rocky Point, etc,etc. Disasters are a provincial responsiblity and if the disaster warrants a response by the CF then you will receive military units in accordance with the disaster. We are part of a NATION, not just a province, BC needs to learn this as much as Quebec does. We help one another.

quote:

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Peggy Parry-Bran stated: Vancouver Island has been left virtually defenceless with the exception of the Reserve units who are having a terrible
time getting anyone through the recruiting process.

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Vancouver Island defenceless .... Against Whom? Who are we defenceless against? Recruiting is a problem throughout Canada Regular and Reserve.

quote:

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Ottawa seems to have forgotten us. Pencil us into that
plan please.

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That is your perception and it is not reality.

Cheers,

This is my first post on the war diary but I just had to throw my two cents worth into this topic. I agree with what alot of you guys are saying about our organization but I have a few ideas I'd like to add/amend. Here is my proposal for the organization of the Army:

Firstly, the Army would be divided into categories based on each unit's level of readiness and reg/res mix. 'Category A' would be units that are maintained at or near 100% regforce strength, 'Cat B' are any from 30/70 to 60/40 reg/res mix and 'Cat C' are almost 100% reservists. So Based on this the 'Cat A' units/formations in the army will be as follows:

6 Mechanized Infantry Battalions (67 LAV III each)
2 Armoured Regiments (43 Leo C2 each (3 Sqns of 14), 21 Coyote)
2 Medium Arty Regts (18 M109A4+ each)
2 Cbt Engr Regts (MTVL/MTVE/M113A3)

'Cat B' units:

3 Brigade Group HQ and Sigs Sqns
3 Light Infantry Battalions (BV-206/Motorized)
1 Armoured Cav Regt (29 Coyote DFSV, 16 Coyote)
1 Light Arty Regt (18 LG1 MkII)
1 Cbt Engr Regt (Light)
1 Recce Regt (Armd Sch) (14 Leo C2, 22 Coyote)
1 GS Arty Regt (Arty Sch) (6 M109A4+, 6 LG1 MkII, 6 C3)
1 Engr Sp Regt (MTVL/MTVE/M113A3)
1 AD Regt (24 ADATS)
3 AD Btys (WLAV-VSHORAD/Javelin S15)
3 CS Svc Bns
3 GS Svc Bns
3 Fd Amb

'Cat C':

9 Brigade Group HQ and Sigs Sqn
24 'Mech' Inf Bns (Regts) (LAV III)
12 'Light' Inf Bns (Regts) (3 with para capability)
9 Armd Regts (Cougar)
9 Recce Regts (LUVW)
9 Arty Regts (C3)
3 GS Arty Regts (C3)
9 Fd Engr Regts/Sqns
9 CS Svc Bns
9 GS Svc Bns

OK I know that's probably too much info, but I'll explain it all now. The equipment hldings are listed to show that it is possible to go to this organization now, with what we have. The Cat A units as listed will pretty much correspond to the regforce units we have now. There would be two mech brigades: 1 CMBG in Edmonton/Shilo and 5 GBMC in Valcartier/Gagetown. Some of the units from Val would have to move to Gagetwon as the former is too small for a mech bde. As you can see, the Armd Regts of these brigades will hold the majority of the Leos.
The Cat B units would mostly comprise a Light Brigade based in Petawawa with (essentially) a small Coyote DFSV regt. Also there would be some "Army" units in Gagetown to support the schools and act as a basis for trg/mobilization. The GS Arty would basically be W Bty+, The Recce Regt would be 8CH and would possess all the vehs used by the Armd Sch. Same thing goes for 4 ESR and 4 AD Regt. None of these units would be manned to full strength but would require augmentation from similar Cat C units (ie the Cat C GS Arty units would augment the GS Arty Regt in Gagetown)
The 'Cat C' units (mostly militia) would be organized into 6 'Mech' and 3 'Light' Brigade Groups. Each would have 4 inf units, a recce regt, an armd regt etc. There would also be some army-level units not assigned to Bdes. The role of these units is to provide formed sub-units to "round-out" the cat a and b units. Each Bde would be twinned with a Cat A Battle Group and would provide augmentees for that Battle Group during trg/operations. For example: 3 PPLCI BG in Petawawa goes on tour as a light BG. 39 CBG in BC (the LFWA light bde) would provide the augmentees for the entire BG (inf coy, armd, arty augmentees etc.)
Equipment - I've listed the equipment so that you can get an idea that this is possible, but I must qualify two things. Firstly: the equipment for the Cat C units would only be sufficient for trg at the sub-sub unit level. Basically there are sufficient LAVs for approx 4 per unit; there are enough Cougars for 8 per unit and enough C3s for 6 per unit (lucky gunners). This equipment should be held centrally at Brigade Training and Support Centers similar (but smaller) to the MTSCs. MTSC was a good idea but it only benefits those units within 8 hrs driving time. Secondly: As new equipment is brought on-line (ie ACV, MIFS) there should be sufficient quantities so that the Cat C units can train on the same equipment as the Cat A & B units. This would greatly ease augmentation and training.
OK I've said too much. I could write a book on all the ideas I have! If you have any questions please feel free to email me! I have lots more info and could answer some of the questions my ideas have no doubt created. Cheers!

Dulce et Decorum est Pro Patria Mori