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What would happened if?

Weinie

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A recent post had me thinking....."What would have happened if'

Either of Adolph Hitlers" grandparents had died in a (very plausible) pandemic at that time.

Or if either of Frederick Bantings grandparents had died at an early age, before producing the progenitors of him.

We witnessed the worst and best of what humanity could accomplish. Would we be at the same level of progress had this not happened?
 

Remius

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My take is that even if Hitler didn’t come about, someone else would have. The grudges stemming from WW1 would still have existed and created the same circumstances that would have had a populist step up and ignite German nationalism one way or another.

I as for Banting, I am sure there must have been others doing similar work.

For both, it would have been a delay maybe but I think both end results would have been the same with some variations of course.
 

SeaKingTacco

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A recent post had me thinking....."What would have happened if'

Either of Adolph Hitlers" grandparents had died in a (very plausible) pandemic at that time.

Or if either of Frederick Bantings grandparents had died at an early age, before producing the progenitors of him.

We witnessed the worst and best of what humanity could accomplish. Would we be at the same level of progress had this not happened?
If it wasn’t Hitler, it would have been somebody. And that somebody might have had a bit more strategic acumen, so the result might have been quite a bit worse.

Suppose that “Alt-Fuhrer“had not demonized the Jewish population, but just pumped German nationalism Instead? Or not fought a three front war? Would all of those scientists and physicists have fled to Britain and North America in the 1930s? What would have happened if Germany had developed the Atomic Bomb, round about 1943? Then what?

As for Banting/Best, I think insulin would have been eventually discovered.
 

mariomike

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What would have happened if Germany had developed the Atomic Bomb, round about 1943?
Albert Speer said in a 1971 interview that the bomber offensive created "an armaments emergency in Germany which ruled out a major program to develop the atomic bomb."
 

daftandbarmy

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Albert Speer said in a 1971 interview that the bomber offensive created "an armaments emergency in Germany which ruled out a major program to develop the atomic bomb."

My Dad was pretty happy with the results of the bombing campaign, even though (as part of the the 3rd Canadian Division) he was accidentally bombed by the USAF in Normandy. It was the only way for the allies to strike back against Germany prior to 1944/45:

"... When I look around to see how we can win the war I see that there is only one sure path. We have no Continental Army which can defeat the German military power. The blockade is broken and Hitler has Asia and probably Africa to draw from. Should he be repulsed here or not try invasion, he will recoil eastward, and we have nothing to stop him. But there is one thing that will bring him back and bring him down, and that is an absolutely devastating exterminating attack by very heavy bombers from this country upon the Nazi homeland. We must be able to overwhelm him by this means, without which I do not see a way through." -- Prime Minister Winston Churchill, July 8, 1940, quoted in Max Hastings, Bomber Command (NY: Dial Press, 1979), p. 116.

 

mariomike

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My Dad was pretty happy with the results of the bombing campaign, even though (as part of the the 3rd Canadian Division) he was accidentally bombed by the USAF in Normandy. It was the only way for the allies to strike back against Germany prior to 1944/45:
After the war, General Omar Bradley ( U.S. Army ) remarked, "We went into France almost totally untrained in air-ground cooperation."

My uncle was on the Caen raid. The bombing of Caen was at the request of General Montgomery. Air Marshall Harris was willing to co-operate, But, as he repeatedly explained, his men had been trained to fly at night and each aircraft operated "individually, navigating by prescribed routes to the neighbourhood of their objective under conditions in which no details of the ground can generally be seen." Each aircraft bombed on pyrotechnical markers placed on or near the objectives by Pathfinder aircraft and if necessary corrections were made by the master bomber. It involved grave risks for the army to ask aircrew trained for such missions to locate and identify ground targets in close proximity to our own troops.

Harris wanted the army to understand that the pilot in a Lancaster had a very limited view of the ground as did the navigator, "a machine minder and plotter who spends most of his time in a cabin." The navigators job was to determine the position of the aircraft using electronic aids as well as dead reckoning. The only crew member who could actually see the ground was the air bomber who had little training and experience in the difficult art of map reading with reference to the ground rushing beneath him. If heavy bombers were to provide close support the chances of short bombing and misplaced concentrations would have to be expected.

With reference to Terry Copp, Canadian military historian.
 

Remius

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If it wasn’t Hitler, it would have been somebody. And that somebody might have had a bit more strategic acumen, so the result might have been quite a bit worse.

Suppose that “Alt-Fuhrer“had not demonized the Jewish population, but just pumped German nationalism Instead? Or not fought a three front war? Would all of those scientists and physicists have fled to Britain and North America in the 1930s? What would have happened if Germany had developed the Atomic Bomb, round about 1943? Then what?
If it wasn’t Hitler, it would have been somebody. And that somebody might have had a bit more strategic acumen, so the result might have been quite a bit worse.

Suppose that “Alt-Fuhrer“had not demonized the Jewish population, but just pumped German nationalism Instead? Or not fought a three front war? Would all of those scientists and physicists have fled to Britain and North America in the 1930s? What would have happened if Germany had developed the Atomic Bomb, round about 1943? Then what?

As for Banting/Best, I think insulin would have been eventually discovered.
There is a great book that was made into a really good TV movie with Rutger Hauer called Fatherland. It imagines that Germany gets the atom first and threatens to drop it on London. Britain essentially surrenders. The war on the western front ends but the eastern front continues for 10 years with the Russians slowly winning.
 

mariomike

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There is a great book that was made into a really good TV movie with Rutger Hauer called Fatherland. It imagines that Germany gets the atom first and threatens to drop it on London. Britain essentially surrenders.
But, the reality was, according to Albert Speer "Inside the Third Reich", the project to develop the atom bomb was scuttled in the autumn of 1942.
 

Brad Sallows

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The Allies went into France with good air-ground capabilities, developed during the North African campaigns. What was rarely a particularly useful endeavour was repurposing strategic bombers as a prolonged artillery barrage.
 

CBH99

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So many fascinating possibilities in the "What If..." category of history.

What if the Norwegan resistance hadn't been as clever and dedicated as they were? Or had failed in their efforts to eliminate heavy water production?


So many What If's...
 

brihard

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did nobody play Command and Conquer Red Alert? ;)
Dude, have you got the C&C remastered pack yet? The original C&C, as well as Red Alert, plus all the add ons for $13.50 on steam, with remastered graphics in good definition and modernized controls. It's fantastic.
 

Pikache

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Dude, have you got the C&C remastered pack yet? The original C&C, as well as Red Alert, plus all the add ons for $13.50 on steam, with remastered graphics in good definition and modernized controls. It's fantastic.
One of these days, I'll get around to playing this.

But....

Kane lives!
 

dapaterson

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Dude, have you got the C&C remastered pack yet? The original C&C, as well as Red Alert, plus all the add ons for $13.50 on steam, with remastered graphics in good definition and modernized controls. It's fantastic.
You're saying I need to overcome my aversion to paying again for the same stuff?
 

brihard

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You're saying I need to overcome my aversion to paying again for the same stuff?
You’re paying for updated graphics and playability on a modern system. But man, it held up great. Just as playable and fun as when I first got Red Alert in the mid 90s. Up to you if you want to be a cheap bastard and miss out.
 

dapaterson

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I can be simultaneously a cheap bastard, and have just logged on to Steam and started the download, just so I can torment my spouse with computer generated peons complaining about their shoes.
 
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