• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

VR vs 3B (Being told because I have an awarded claim from a SDA I can just VR)

Would you:

  • Wait for the 3B no matter what?

    Votes: 2 66.7%
  • VR as the benifits will be the same?

    Votes: 1 33.3%

  • Total voters
    3

greydak

Jr. Member
Reaction score
0
Points
0
So I've always heard form pretty well everyone "don't get frustrated & VR, wait for your medical release if you are entitled to one".

Now (unsurprisingly) my file is taking forever to get to Ottawa and back and this is only going to take longer as COVID19 is making the backlog worse, I've become that frustrated guy that just wants to be out and move on from the CAF.

I have recently been informed that because I have an awarded claim from VAC and that it's from injuries sustained in a SDA I could simply VR and still get all the same entitlements as if I were to medical release?

If it's all the same I'd VR tomorrow but I'm suspicious and worried that either there are entitlements left on the table I wouldn't then have access to, or that after the VR pin is pulled I'd stand to loose everything on a technicality?

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.


My details:

PCAT for PTSD since 2012 (low risk MELs requires screening to deploy)

PCAT for hearing since 2018 (low risk requires hearing aids/no loud noise exposure)

X2 back to back TCATs for PTSD with the 2nd one coming up for review soon (been on RTD half days for about 20 months)

Thank you in advanced!



 

Firebird

New Member
Reaction score
0
Points
10
I do not believe that you would receive the same benefits. Under 3B your pension indexes immediately where as under VR you need age & years of service to equal 85. If I could go back I would have waited for 3B instead of just retiring. I had a job offer at the time and did not want to turn it down to wait for 3B release.
 

Jarnhamar

Army.ca Legend
Reaction score
791
Points
940
[quote author=greydak]
I have recently been informed that because I have an awarded claim from VAC and that it's from injuries sustained in a SDA I could simply VR and still get all the same entitlements as if I were to medical release?


[/quote]

Where did you hear that from?
 

Humphrey Bogart

Army.ca Veteran
Staff member
Directing Staff
Subscriber
Reaction score
275
Points
1,010
greydak said:
So I've always heard form pretty well everyone "don't get frustrated & VR, wait for your medical release if you are entitled to one".

Now (unsurprisingly) my file is taking forever to get to Ottawa and back and this is only going to take longer as COVID19 is making the backlog worse, I've become that frustrated guy that just wants to be out and move on from the CAF.

I have recently been informed that because I have an awarded claim from VAC and that it's from injuries sustained in a SDA I could simply VR and still get all the same entitlements as if I were to medical release?

If it's all the same I'd VR tomorrow but I'm suspicious and worried that either there are entitlements left on the table I wouldn't then have access to, or that after the VR pin is pulled I'd stand to loose everything on a technicality?

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.


My details:

PCAT for PTSD since 2012 (low risk MELs requires screening to deploy)

PCAT for hearing since 2018 (low risk requires hearing aids/no loud noise exposure)

X2 back to back TCATs for PTSD with the 2nd one coming up for review soon (been on RTD half days for about 20 months)

Thank you in advanced!

Don't VR, they are trying to screw you out of money. 
 

MJP

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
219
Points
780
greydak said:
My details:

PCAT for PTSD since 2012 (low risk MELs requires screening to deploy)

PCAT for hearing since 2018 (low risk requires hearing aids/no loud noise exposure)

X2 back to back TCATs for PTSD with the 2nd one coming up for review soon (been on RTD half days for about 20 months)

Thank you in advanced!

Based on this you are still a ways away from your file even going to DMEDPOL who will sent it to DMCA 3 for AR/MEL. My suggestion like others in te thread is wait but close with your medical team and find out what they think in terms of next steps.  If you aren't getting satisfactory answers from them then ask your unit CoC to close with the PCN and the surg on your behalf.

Once it gets to DMCA 3 and you get your AR/MEL advisory choose the no disclosure option and your file will have a decision pretty quick. 
 

greydak

Jr. Member
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Jarnhamar said:
Where did you hear that from?


Someone within the military medical system, who when pressed couldn't provide me with a reference to verify.

I'll be following up with them especially seeing as that sort of inaccurate information could lead someone into a really tough spot.
 

greydak

Jr. Member
Reaction score
0
Points
0
MJP said:
Based on this you are still a ways away from your file even going to DMEDPOL who will sent it to DMCA 3 for AR/MEL. My suggestion like others in te thread is wait but close with your medical team and find out what they think in terms of next steps.  If you aren't getting satisfactory answers from them then ask your unit CoC to close with the PCN and the surg on your behalf.

Once it gets to DMCA 3 and you get your AR/MEL advisory choose the no disclosure option and your file will have a decision pretty quick.


How do I speed this process up?

It sometimes feels like the system is designed in a way where you need to be (appear to be) the biggest bag of $hit going to get any sort of direction or help? `

What is the "no disclosure" option?

Does it serve to speed up the decision? If so How?


 
S

stellarpanther

Guest
Wait for the 3b, whoever is telling you everything will be the same doesn't know what they are talking about.  As someone else already said, there are certain benefits that will come with a 3b.
 

MJP

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
219
Points
780
greydak said:
How do I speed this process up?

At stage the best way to speed up the process is talk to your medical team or use your CoC and find out where in the process you stand. If your file is still on 2nd TCAT then it is still local and they may be considering a 3rd TCAT.  You need to make it clear to them that is not your desire and you wish for it to be sent to DMEDPOL. That really in't your call but if you talk to the team and let them know what you want they can help facilitate it.

greydak said:
It sometimes feels like the system is designed in a way where you need to be (appear to be) the biggest bag of $hit going to get any sort of direction or help? `

The system is designed to give a mbr time to recover, not every injury as you well know has a set time which at its expiry the mbr will be magically better. In terms of help your CoC should be there for you and if not ask them for help.

The other reason it is slow on the admin side is the entire process revolves around the concept of procedural fairness in that you as the member get to 1) know that the process is ongoing, 2) have the ability to see all the information they will use to adjudicate your file and 3) have a say in via your representation to add in facts, missing information and/or context. The 3 stages are:

a. Advisory – Comes in the form of a message that essentially tells your unit and you that DMCA 3 is opening up an AR/MEL

b. Disclosure – Comes again in the form of a message to your unit for anything Protected B and below less medical information which is only sent to you. You have chance to provide representation here and you have 30 days now to so (although in reality it can be longer, especially if you ask)

c. Decision – Last step of the process and really just outlines the CAF’s decision on the way forward. Most of the time it is release in 7 months or a period of retention (POR) if your trade and unit agree and most importantly you can keep working.


At the advisory stage you will have an option to waive disclosure, once you do that they will skip the middle step which takes 6 months and your file will go into the queue for a decision. My experience which is very recent dealing with a number of these files is it is quick turnaround 1-2 months was the average.
 

PPCLI Guy

Army.ca Fixture
Donor
Reaction score
225
Points
710
stellarpanther said:
Wait for the 3b, whoever is telling you everything will be the same doesn't know what they are talking about.  As someone else already said, there are certain benefits that will come with a 3b.

What are they?  That would be useful information not just for the OP, but for others as well...including me.
 
S

stellarpanther

Guest
PPCLI Guy said:
What are they?  That would be useful information not just for the OP, but for others as well...including me.

Your pension is index right away, although depending on the amount of time in, this might not be an issue.  A big one that I don't think was mentioned is that you get priority for 2 years to apply for a federal government job, you get 90 percent (I believe is the new percentage) of your pay for up to 2 years, you can also get them to send you back to school during that time to get new skills.  Those are the ones off the top of my head.  SISIP and VAC case managers are the best ones to discuss it with as they are the SME's for that sort of thing.

 
S

stellarpanther

Guest
I don't know the situation here and again I'm no expert in this area so talk to VAC and SISIP but there is also something that if you get a 3b and your injury/illness was related to your military service prevents you from working in the future you may be entitle a percentage of your pay for a longer. I believe until 60 but again call SISIP. 

 
 

Staff Weenie

Full Member
Reaction score
2
Points
280
Greydak - have you been in touch with a Transition Centre yet? The Services Staff there can fully explain the differences in benefits and services between a voluntary release, and a medical release. If you need help contacting your nearest Transition Centre, let me know.

I would strongly advise against taking a voluntary release if a medical release is a certainty in the near future.
 
S

stellarpanther

Guest
Here are a couple links that might be helpful:

https://www.sisip.com/en/insurance/long-term-disability/vocational-rehabilitation-program

https://www.sisip.com/en/insurance/long-term-disability/long-term-disability-faqs






 
S

stellarpanther

Guest
Eye In The Sky said:
Doesn't a 3B give you 75% pension for the first 2 years?

I provided a couple of links but a quick look at it does say it's 75 percent. I think this is where I got the 90 percent number in my head from.

At age 65 how is the 70% IRB calculated? What offsets are considered?
If a Veteran has a diminished earning capacity prior to age 65, Income Replacement Benefit (IRB) may be payable for life. After the Veteran reaches the age of 65, instead of receiving 90 percent of salary at the time of release from the military, the Veteran will receive 70 percent of the IRB amount payable prior to age 65, less offsets. The benefit will be offset by other income sources, such as benefits payable under theCanadian Forces Superannuation Act, commonly known as the CAF military pension.

 

brihard

Army.ca Fixture
Mentor
Reaction score
1,122
Points
890
stellarpanther said:
I provided a couple of links but a quick look at it does say it's 75 percent. I think this is where I got the 90 percent number in my head from.

At age 65 how is the 70% IRB calculated? What offsets are considered?
If a Veteran has a diminished earning capacity prior to age 65, Income Replacement Benefit (IRB) may be payable for life. After the Veteran reaches the age of 65, instead of receiving 90 percent of salary at the time of release from the military, the Veteran will receive 70 percent of the IRB amount payable prior to age 65, less offsets. The benefit will be offset by other income sources, such as benefits payable under theCanadian Forces Superannuation Act, commonly known as the CAF military pension.

SISIP pays 75% pre-release salary. VAC tops it up to 90% if you’re approved for the Income Replacement Benefit.
 

catalyst

Full Member
Reaction score
0
Points
210
Staff Weenie said:
Greydak - have you been in touch with a Transition Centre yet? The Services Staff there can fully explain the differences in benefits and services between a voluntary release, and a medical release. If you need help contacting your nearest Transition Centre, let me know.

I would strongly advise against taking a voluntary release if a medical release is a certainty in the near future.

This^^^ Go talk to the TC folks and then talk to the TC folks on the VAC side (you will probably have to phone them, but the svcs staff can help with that!).

You can apply for the VAC rehab program (with a service relationship - which you said you have) and if approved you will receive the 90% top up income replacement, rehabilitation and potential vocational rehabilitation.  However, there are other important aspects to consider including the pension but most importantly having a plan to successfully transition (do you have providers who will accept you in the community, do you have a doctor, do you have XYZ, do you have a plan for what to do with your post-CAF career?) 

 

greydak

Jr. Member
Reaction score
0
Points
0
MJP said:
At stage the best way to speed up the process is talk to your medical team or use your CoC and find out where in the process you stand. If your file is still on 2nd TCAT then it is still local and they may be considering a 3rd TCAT.  You need to make it clear to them that is not your desire and you wish for it to be sent to DMEDPOL. That really in't your call but if you talk to the team and let them know what you want they can help facilitate it.

The system is designed to give a mbr time to recover, not every injury as you well know has a set time which at its expiry the mbr will be magically better. In terms of help your CoC should be there for you and if not ask them for help.

The other reason it is slow on the admin side is the entire process revolves around the concept of procedural fairness in that you as the member get to 1) know that the process is ongoing, 2) have the ability to see all the information they will use to adjudicate your file and 3) have a say in via your representation to add in facts, missing information and/or context. The 3 stages are:

a. Advisory – Comes in the form of a message that essentially tells your unit and you that DMCA 3 is opening up an AR/MEL

b. Disclosure – Comes again in the form of a message to your unit for anything Protected B and below less medical information which is only sent to you. You have chance to provide representation here and you have 30 days now to so (although in reality it can be longer, especially if you ask)

c. Decision – Last step of the process and really just outlines the CAF’s decision on the way forward. Most of the time it is release in 7 months or a period of retention (POR) if your trade and unit agree and most importantly you can keep working.


At the advisory stage you will have an option to waive disclosure, once you do that they will skip the middle step which takes 6 months and your file will go into the queue for a decision. My experience which is very recent dealing with a number of these files is it is quick turnaround 1-2 months was the average.

Thank you for all of the information especially on the admin piece! 

I have drafted a memo requesting posting to CAFTG as their guide states "RTD lasting beyond 180 days member may be posted to TG"

My CofC (at least in the headquarters) appear to be more concerned about position numbers and staffing than the welfare of the troops but some in the Sr NCO side of the house have shown to have my back (as it's supposed to be).

Again thanks, I definitely have more homework to catch up on (which is what brought me here in the first place)
 

greydak

Jr. Member
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Staff Weenie said:
Greydak - have you been in touch with a Transition Centre yet? The Services Staff there can fully explain the differences in benefits and services between a voluntary release, and a medical release. If you need help contacting your nearest Transition Centre, let me know.

I would strongly advise against taking a voluntary release if a medical release is a certainty in the near future.

I had requested a posting to CAF TG about 2 years ago when shit was coming off the rails.

All of the CAFTG (IPSC/JPSU) briefings I'd seen up to that point used the analogy "If the member needs to take a knee, that's why we're here" so I figured perfect, I'll get over there, get some guidance maybe it'll result in a release, maybe a medical OT, who knows?

I was essentially told because I'm not releasing (or don't have a date) and by all units of measure appear to be physically fit and high functioning at work that I would be doing RTD at my unit.

So in my case the analogy is more like "get up you don't need to take a knee, at least not yet, besides you need to watch your arcs, we'll have the medic send you an email every few weeks or wait till you f#%$ing collapse and deal with it then"

Now two years later I'm resubmitting my request memo and hopefully some good leadership down the line in the order of march will identify that this guy needs to "take a f#%$ing knee" and that he's been "walking" on an injury for far too long!

This is what I meant earlier when I said you have to appear to be a bag of $hit to get anywhere with these programs and policy's. 

Sorry for straying into analogy land, but that's the best way to explain it.

 
 
Top