Standing Contingency Task Force: A Canadian Marine Unit?

FSTO

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
33
Points
580
Have you guys heard about it? Cause you'll be very much involved in it.
Learn to love being at sea for long periods of time.

This is the website for you who have access to the DIN

http://navy.dwan.dnd.ca/SCTF/

:salute:
 

McG

Army.ca Legend
Reaction score
1
Points
430
It was part of the new defence policy, but I've never heard anyone suggest that we will see the army start living on boats like a MEU.  The Army's strategic reserve TF would likely be the land element to this.
 

FSTO

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
33
Points
580
There has already been 3 meetings of the SCTF WG involving senior Army/Air Force/Navy personnel and more are scheduled. The Navy has had this concept in its hip pocket (and thinking that it would never get off the ground/in the field/out to sea) for years and now that a CDS with an Army background and a supportive MND/PM have mentioned it in public it looks like something is really starting to happen. The USMC and Royal Navy are standing by to support us in any way possible as in liaison positions, training and procurement advice. The CDS vision is for fairly rapid advancement of this concept, so hang on to your tin hats boys its going to be a heck of a ride!

Oh yes, here is the Army DIN site for more information:

http://lfdts.army.mil.ca/dglcd/files/14_SCTF/
 
B

BITTER PPLCI CPL

Guest
Is there a time frame or will I be warrant, or a crusty old cpl?
 

FSTO

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
33
Points
580
BITTER PPCLI CPL said:
Is there a time frame or will I be warrant, or a crusty old cpl?

Since I do not write your PER, I can't hazard a guess when you'll be a crusty old cpl.  ;D

But, as for the Task Force, they are very ambitious and they are planning for some interesting exercises in the very near future.
Royal Canadian Marine Corp, here we come! :salute:
 

Strike

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Last I heard was that everything will be set to go by the summer of 2007.  This doesn't mean it won't be operational before then, just that this is when ALL the players will be operational.
 

FSTO

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
33
Points
580
To those of you on the East Coast. Have you heard much about the Standing Contigency Task Force? What have you heard and is it achievable on the timeline of being IOC by 2008?

All the info is contained here:

http://navy.dwan.dnd.ca/SCTF/
 

Chimo

Full Member
Reaction score
0
Points
0
FSTO,
Would you please place the salient points from the website for those of us occupying the outposts without DWAN access?  :salute:
 
S

Sam69

Guest
Chimo said:
FSTO,
Would you please place the salient points from the website for those of us occupying the outposts without DWAN access?  :salute:

No - they are on the DWAN because they are not intended to be widely distributed. The DWAN is a controlled network, the Internet is not.

Sam
 

Chimo

Full Member
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Sam,
I am sure FTSO is quite capable to speak for himself/herself. I was not asking for a verbatim transcript just the salient points. Obviously, if it can be viewed by all that have DWAN access, it is unclassified. :salute:

I thought the point of this forum was foster an open exchange of ideas. The SCTF and other TFs are a major transition in our military culture and I would like to be better informed.

I was able to find this information, in an open source:

"According to the DPS, the SOTF will be joined by a Standing Contingency Task Force (SCTF), a larger high readiness force made up of designated land, air, maritime and special operations forces. This force will be based on a strategic sealift capability, centered on what Chief of Defence Staff General Rick Hillier has called a "big honking ship" (BHS). Little detail has been given on the BHS, though it will likely be an amphibious assault vessel similar to the 25,000-tonnes San Antonio-class LPD (Landing Platform Dock) used by the US Marine Corp. Such a vessel would be equipped with a flight deck for helicopters, as well as a well deck for a landing craft.

The BHS would be combined with the strategic lift capability of the three proposed Joint Support Ships (JSS), of which â “ due to their likely placement on both our coasts â “ two JSS may be made available for use by the SCTF. These ships would be capable of carrying the fuel, stores and/or the equipment for the landing force and its accompanying Naval Task Force.

This strategic sealift capability would be complemented by a tactical airlift capability, likely in the form of medium to heavy-lift helicopter platforms. Possible candidates include the CH-47 Chinook, the workhorse of the US Army since its introduction in the 1960s, or the CH-53 Sea Stallion, which has the added advantage of having a larger lift capacity and being shipboard compatible and designed for amphibious operations. The CH-53, it should be noted, is currently employed by US Marines. With this mixture of strategic and tactical lift , the SCTF should represent a relatively significant power projection capability for the Canadian Forces.

On the other hand, the SCTF â “ aside from providing a more significant support for special forces operations â “ is clearly designed to deal with the threat posed by failed and failing states, which are seen as planting "the seeds of threats to regional and global security," whether in the form of terrorist sanctuaries or refugee flows. Such low to medium-intensity "stability operations" require a significant and reasonably robust "boots on the ground" presence, and this need will likely be fulfilled with the expeditionary and more manpower- intensive SCTF."

http://www.navy.forces.gc.ca/mspa_news/news_issues_e.asp?category=6&title=36




 

Blakey

Sr. Member
Subscriber
Reaction score
0
Points
0
I cannot for the life of me remember what it said on the homepage for the SCTF site (it was even in big red lettering), but if I venture back into the office tonight ill have a look.
 
S

Sam69

Guest
Chimo said:
Sam,
I am sure FTSO is quite capable to speak for himself/herself. I was not asking for a verbatim transcript just the salient points. Obviously, if it can be viewed by all that have DWAN access, it is unclassified. :salute:

I'm sure he can too - I'm merely filling in the common sense answer here for those who think that DWAN is a public resource. Just because information is unclassified that doesn't mean that it can be publically released without appropriate authority.

My comments are not meant to stifle debate and discussion on the SCTF - fire away. But the information on the SCTF DWAN site is specific and internal information not needed to discuss the broader concept of the SCTF, which is outlined in the DPS.

:salute:
Sam
 

FSTO

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
33
Points
580
This is the notice on the SCTF website:

This WEBSITE is UNCLASSIFIED. However if a document is printed from the TITAN mirror site, it is to be considered SECRET unless appropriately labelled.

From what I can glean from the website and talking to a few of my compatriots on the east coast, SCTF will be a fully intergrated amphibious force that will be able to handle tasks ranging from an exercise to disaster relief/NEO to forced entry of lightly held positions. This will be a permanent venture with Army/Air Force and Navy units training together on a continuous basis.
You cannot conduct amphibious ops on an ad-hoc basis, you have to have troops who are used to being at sea and equipment that can operate in a saltwater environment. When I was in East Timor in the PROTECTEUR, the only time we were involved with the VanDoos was during Christmas when we had them over for turkey dinner. It was pretty pathetic watching the RAN and Aussie Army working together as a team while the Canadians couldn't even establish basic radio comms between the Army and Navy.
These are pretty heady times; we have a CDS with a vision and personality to get his vision working. We also have a government (and opposition) that seems to be supportive of the General.
Now we have been promised the moon before and have been let down, so until I see ships in the water dis-embarking troops into landing craft I will still be sceptical. But at least it is a start.
:salute:
 

Cloud Cover

Army.ca Veteran
Subscriber
Reaction score
26
Points
430
Chimo said:
This strategic sealift capability would be complemented by a tactical airlift capability, likely in the form of medium to heavy-lift helicopter platforms. Possible candidates include the CH-47 Chinook, the workhorse of the US Army since its introduction in the 1960s, or the CH-53 Sea Stallion, which has the added advantage of having a larger lift capacity and being shipboard compatible and designed for amphibious operations. The CH-53, it should be noted, is currently employed by US Marines. With this mixture of strategic and tactical lift , the SCTF should represent a relatively significant power projection capability for the Canadian Forces.

Although the equipment listed is all speculation, isn't this a mismatch of equipment? IIRC the LPD17 class can provide only limted support to the Chinook or the Sea Stallion for short periods of time [if at all], and is not suitable for detailed maintenance that may be required. Perhaps the JSS will carry these aircraft?  
 

FSTO

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
33
Points
580
Australia (unlike our country) doesn't screw around. Here is their announcement today regarding new ships

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/cgi-bin/client/modele.pl?session=dae.15516957.1123761081.Qvs7ucOa9dUAADmWZWg&modele=jdc_34

I think it is a flat top.

Are we scared of carriers? We talk of San Antonio, Rotterdamn, Sirrocco which all have a large flight deck on the stern but never mention something that you can park lots of stuff on and still launch aircraft of either the rotary or STVOL.
 
S

Sam69

Guest
Neither is a "flat top" per se although the Spanish ship comes with a ski ramp (IIRC). However, none of the specs listed imply that the selected ship will be anymore capable in any meaningful way than what is required in the JSS SOR.

And, even if we were to buy the Spanish ship we would not have a fast air capability that could operate off of it (and neither do the Aussies) until JSF comes along (if ever).

Sam
 

FSTO

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
33
Points
580
I am not advocating the Spanish ship (although it is pretty nice) over any other, and by the way the JSS will complement the LHD/A/P what ever we buy.
In my opinion, any ship with an Island on the port side and a flight deck from the bow to the stern is a Flat-top and is fixed wing capable (STOVL).

 
S

Sam69

Guest
Fair enough - and don't get me wrong: I'm a naval air type and I love the big boats. But, I don't think it has significant advantages in our context over the JSS (especially since we have no FW assets to fly off of it). You sure could put a lot of Chinooks on there for Duey though!

:salute:
Sam
 

Ex-Dragoon

Army.ca Fixture
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Is there any sort of chance that the CDS will get the BHS instead of us getting JSS? If so that will leave the navy without any form of reliable AOR support in a few years.....
 
Top