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Sexual Misconduct Allegations in The CAF

Good2Golf

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So you’re saying Harper had numerous ethical violations and treated women disrespectfully?
 

Altair

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So you’re saying Harper had numerous ethical violations and treated women disrespectfully?
You know exactly what I'm saying. I've said it repeatedly. I cannot help it if you refuse to read what I have written here.

But just to do my due diligence, I will say it one last time.

I believe that people who engage in sexual misconduct do it regardless of who is the sitting Prime Minister.
 

QV

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I am not saying to remove due process, what I am saying is the whole prosecute the victim for 'false allegations' is a terrible thing to do. Unless there is clear evidence that the whole thing was made up you end up creating the barriers that prevent victims from coming forward in the first place.
I am not saying to remove due process, what I am saying is the whole prosecute the victim for 'false allegations' is a terrible thing to do. Unless there is clear evidence that the whole thing was made up you end up creating the barriers that prevent victims from coming forward in the first place.
If the allegation is false, then the victim isn't really a victim. In fact they've done something quite terrible to another person and that needs to be dealt with.
 

ModlrMike

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It's not what you're saying, it's what you're inferring. Your statement infers that Mr Harper was somehow responsible for the Gen Vance situation.
 

Altair

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It's not what you're saying, it's what you're inferring. Your statement infers that Mr Harper was somehow responsible for the Gen Vance situation.
Incorrect. I was saying that Harper was as responsible for Gen Vance situation as Trudeau was.

As in, not at all.

People in the Olds boys club don't give a damn who is in power.
 

Good2Golf

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You know exactly what I'm saying. I've said it repeatedly. I cannot help it if you refuse to read what I have written here.

But just to do my due diligence, I will say it one last time.

I believe that people who engage in sexual misconduct do it regardless of who is the sitting Prime Minister.
I do not. It appears you were trying to impugn Harper in the earlier conduct of Vance, as though Harper should have known how a MGen was conducting himself.

The Difference between Harper and Trudeau is that Trudeau knew via his Minister and staff that there were serious concerns over Vance’s conduct, and the lack of action or acceptance of responsibility by any of Canada’s elected officials of the day is disappointing at best, and at worse represents acceptance and support of questionable, unethical conduct.
 

PMedMoe

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certainly the civilian government has displayed such attitudes as well with our Prime Minister as the most glaring example, the guy who always talks about respect for women yet groped a reporter (and of course skated away from that with no consequences) and also talks about diversity and inclusion but wore blackface on numerous occasions (again skating away unscathed).
Incidents which happened over 20 years ago. Can't come up with something new?
 

Altair

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And the email (which would have gotten a junior member during Op Honour in a lot more hot water) happened in 2012, no?
Because general officers are completely non partisan, or bi partisan. They will commit their offenses regardless of which party is in power.
I'm sure if I went back to 1812 I would find the same old boys club doing whatever they wanted to do under George Prevost
I'm saying people who are doing the sexual assault don't care one lick who is in power, so long as they have their old boys club covering for them, they can bend the rules to cover their asses from now to kingdom come.
I'm more of a person who believes in holding individuals responsible for their actions, not blaming the political leadership at the time for influencing grown adults to make shit decisions.

Then that's what you should have said.
Sure.
 

Altair

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I do not. It appears you were trying to impugn Harper in the earlier conduct of Vance, as though Harper should have known how a MGen was conducting himself.

The Difference between Harper and Trudeau is that Trudeau knew via his Minister and staff that there were serious concerns over Vance’s conduct, and the lack of action or acceptance of responsibility by any of Canada’s elected officials of the day is disappointing at best, and at worse represents acceptance and support of questionable, unethical conduct.
Sure.
 

Mediman14

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So now we have this red room incident that apparently happened and only 50 something people got interviewed out of the 132. Very shitty investigation to say the least.


Then we have this part time CDS getting his staff to make up a policy on how to investigate/ deal with General Officers with Misconduct. This is why it will never be right. How can GO write policies on themselves in a fair manner? You just know there will be some loop hole or some other thing that will let them off the hook.

If you are going to get serious about it, bring in a outside source . What are they scared off? Someone losing their job? Someone being charged? Some spin off investigations to unravel other issues? It looks like double standard. If it was a Jnr Nco, rest assured the book would be thrown at them. I am not speaking for all branches of the military but In my 20 years, besides my own charge, I have witnessed 20 plus trials, all Jnr NCO’s, not one officer. Instead they got posted to Ottawa in some meaningless position. In fact, to break it down again, it was all males that got charged. Honestly, in the medical branch, it is the females that got off with everything, such as harassment, stealing, false accusations, sleeping with subordinates . Instead the CoC was concern about one of male Cpl’s wearing the CF Uniform at a wedding without permission. Never mind stealing NPF funds by a female Sgt.
 

Halifax Tar

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I haven't heard of this Red Room thing... I read the article. I haven't read 50 Shades of Grey or seen the movies either; and if I made a comment about someone's Red Room it would def be in relation to a physical structure as I know no other meaning for that term... until now I suppose.

But if people dog piled with inappropriate comments about BDSM and Kinky Sex after that there is a problem as those topics have no place in the work place.
 

Kilted

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Let's put it another way, a troopie told me his date backed out in him and blocked his number after he said he was in the CAF, fearing he would sexually assault her. Some are comparing it to post Somalia where just wearing the uniform makes you a bad person.
I don't think that we are at that point. I've only spoken to a few people outside the military about this (mostly due to covid) and they have recognized that the recent positions shuffles have been because of the actions of two people. We don't even know what one of those people has been accused of. I don't think that there are too many people in Canada who actually think that every person they see in uniform is going to be a rapist or engage in other activities, but then again, we are at a pinnacle of wokeness, so who knows. I realize using the word pinnacle may be premature, as I am sure that the next few years will see even more.
 

Navy_Pete

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So now we have this red room incident that apparently happened and only 50 something people got interviewed out of the 132. Very shitty investigation to say the least.


They said they had 132 people invited; not usual at those big meetings to have a whack of people not show up (or have both forces and defence 365 emails on it for teams). One of the weekly calls I'm on has about 15 people involved but about 40 emails in the list because of that duplication.

Anyway, you always have the right to refuse to talk to the investigator, so I wouldn't read into that too much.

Ignoring a bunch of follow on comments is questionable at best though. I personally wouldn't have followed any connection to a 'red room' and some kind of BDSM thread, but holy crap, who thinks that is a good idea to make "jokes" like that in a meeting regardless? The initial comment could easily have been innocuous enough it was the follow on bits that were the problem.
 

Mills Bomb

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This interesting thread actually made me join the site, there's not many places this issue is being fairly and openly discussed (That I'm aware of at least).

I wonder how many other CAF members are also silently lurking looking for answers?
 

Halifax Tar

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Campaign to end sexual harassment in Canadian Armed Forces shut down​



The country's acting top military commander has formally ended Operation Honour, the high-profile campaign to stamp out sexual misconduct in the ranks.

In a message to members of the Canadian Armed Forces late Wednesday, Lt.-Gen. Wayne Eyre said the nearly six-year-old program is over, but the drive to find another way to end inappropriate behaviour and sexual violence will continue.

"Operation Honour has culminated, and thus we will close it out, harvest what has worked, learn from what hasn't, and develop a deliberate plan to go forward," he said.

On Tuesday, Eyre told a parliamentary committee that the program may have run its course and may need to be replaced. But his remarks to the four-party committee on the status of women stopped short of formally cancelling the operation.

Last week, in making public her resignation, one of the country's most decorated women combat veterans said the campaign had lost all credibility in light of the misconduct allegations against the military's two highest ranking commanders.

More on link above
 

Brad Sallows

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Irrespective of whether they like it, or whether it's constitutionally incorrect, politicians do not have exactly zero influence on setting tones for conduct. And there are several old boys' networks - for politicians in general, for parties, for sub-factions of parties, for very senior civil servants and for very senior uniformed people, for senior business executives, for units (eg. senates and associations), etc. Not much point in getting too wound up over which one is responsible.

If "trust" is genuinely sought, and this is not just (as I expect) another round of harrumphing rhetoric, then everyone compromised has to step away or stay silent - people who "experience things differently", people who knew or should have known (duty required it) about ill conduct, people with histories of loose conduct*. I don't mean they all necessarily have to resign - some might - but they can't be involved in the communications; they can't be among the people demanding fixes or giving assurances. The PM and the MND, for example, can not effectively be included - they are done, finished, where matters of ethics and propriety are concerned.

*I suppose there will be many fewer excuses ("As long as they can do the job." "He/she is an excellent soldier/officer.") offered in response to critical comments about those with adulterous or merely irresponsibly promiscuous proclivities. Very few people can successfully create a wall between themselves and their working life.
 
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