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Former Defense Secretary Gen. James Mattis roasts Donald Trump:

observor 69

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"I earned my spurs on the battlefield; Donald Trump earned his spurs in a letter from a doctor," Mattis said.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/defense-secretary-gen-james-mattis-roasts-donald-trump/story?id=66358021&cid=social_twitter_abcn

Watch the video clip this quote is from. The General has a sense of humour.  :D
 

tomahawk6

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He is on a slippery slope if he wants to criticize the President. UCMJ Art 88.

https://www.thebalancecareers.com/punitive-articles-of-the-ucmj-3356854

The exact words of the Uniform Code of Military Justice Article 88 - Contempt Toward Public Officials states: “Any commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, the Vice President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military department, the Secretary of Transportation, or the Governor or legislature of any State, Territory, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or present shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.”


"The main reason for this regulation is to keep military members who have access to major weapons of war to ever get involved in politics. Once they are retired or resigned their commission and a civilian citizen, they may partake in such political arguments in both written or spoken word. With the advent of social media is can be a slippery slope for military members to discuss such matters and could even be subject to UCMJ violations. That is why you will find military members refrain from that activity or have incognito social media accounts."
 

Remius

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tomahawk6 said:
He is on a slippery slope if he wants to criticize the President. UCMJ Art 88.

https://www.thebalancecareers.com/punitive-articles-of-the-ucmj-3356854

The exact words of the Uniform Code of Military Justice Article 88 - Contempt Toward Public Officials states: “Any commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, the Vice President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military department, the Secretary of Transportation, or the Governor or legislature of any State, Territory, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or present shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.”

Is he not retired?  I fail to see what slippery slope he is on.


"The main reason for this regulation is to keep military members who have access to major weapons of war to ever get involved in politics. Once they are retired or resigned their commission and a civilian citizen, they may partake in such political arguments in both written or spoken word. With the advent of social media is can be a slippery slope for military members to discuss such matters and could even be subject to UCMJ violations. That is why you will find military members refrain from that activity or have incognito social media accounts."
 

Good2Golf

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Retired = decommissioned?
 

The Bread Guy

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Good2Golf said:
Retired = decommissioned?
I prefer the former as a post-nominal myself, but to each their own  ;D
 

mariomike

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Once they are retired or resigned their commission and a civilian citizen, they may partake in such political arguments in both written or spoken word.



Sounds to me like a couple of guys engaging in a little gentle good humour with each other.

 

BDTyre

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He also didn't refer to him as President Trump, or even Mr. Trump.
 

Blackadder1916

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The jokes aside, two thoughts ran through my mind as I watched General Mattis* deliver his speech.

1.  The man is a patriot.
2.  Is this a kick-off to a political run.

While the purpose of the Al Smith Dinner is to raise funds for Catholic charities, its connection to politics is legendary.  The selection of the  keynote speaker can be a signal of change in the political climate as well as an opportunity for those who step up to the dais to get in front of the wealthy and politically connected of New York , you know, those who are helpful with the expertise and money necessary to run for national political office.  Last year's speaker was Ambassador Nikki Haley and 2017's was then Speaker Paul Ryan.  Next year, if tradition holds, it will be the two presidential candidates (unless there would be something about the policies or actions of either, usually the Democrat and often related to abortion, that displeases the Archdiocese).

General Mattis has previously, on a few occasions, stated that he has no intention of running for president, however if that holds true, it is starting to appear that he may have no compunction about being a thorn in the side of President Trump's re-election bid.



* Even though, in the American custom, General Mattis would be entitled to use the more senior courtesy title of "Secretary Mattis", it seems that, unlike some of the former generals who served in cabinet posts, most media outlets continue to use "General" as his title.
 

tomahawk6

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I have seen retired officers called out of retirement to stand for court martial. Gen Mattis I am sure knows the law and knows what he can and cannot say. I thought that he was a decent selection as SECDEF and dealing with an undisciplined White House probably wasnt much fun. When my dad retired and became VP of a state community college there was a culture shock going from the military to the civie world and had to deal with the civie teachers and their union.
 

Remius

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tomahawk6 said:
I have seen retired officers called out of retirement to stand for court martial.

was it for stuff done in retirement or while they served?  We've had that here as well but they were court martialled for things done while they served.
 

tomahawk6

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both reasons actually. As long as you are on the payroll they have you. Even retired you can be recalled to active service if needed.
 

The Bread Guy

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tomahawk6 said:
... As long as you are on the payroll they have you ...
Does collecting a pension count as being on payroll?  Other than a directorship @ General Dynamics and a think tank appointment, I don't see him doing anything that has him on a government payroll.

And I'd rather be Mattis' defence counsel than White House or DoD counsel if he was dragged back in to be sanctioned for something he said after leaving the military and the government - even if he is on some ready-reserve list or equivalent  ;D
 

mariomike

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tomahawk6 said:
As long as you are on the payroll they have you.

He is retired. I don't believe they can stop paying a pension for cracking wise about a guy dodging the draft.

If a CAF colonel doing life in prison for murder gets to keep his pension, it's hard to see how a Marine will lose his for a lame joke AFTER he retires.

 

Blackadder1916

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FJAG said:
The provisions respecting who is subject to the UCMJ are here:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/802

I don't think he fits any of those.

:cheers:

But he does.

(4)  Retired members of a regular component of the armed forces who are entitled to pay.

US military retirees do not "technically" receive a pension or annuity in the same sense that we do.  They receive "retired pay".

But there were some recent legal challenges and this opinion from the Navy Marine Court of Criminal Appeals says it is unconstitutional, though it is likely to be appealed by the government.

http://www.caaflog.com/wp-content/uploads/BEGANI_201800082_PUB.pdf
PUBLISHED OPINION OF THE COURT
_________________________
CRISFIELD, Chief Judge:
Congress has determined that some, but not all, military retirees should remain subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) while they are retired. Retirees from a regular (i.e., active) component, which in the Navy includes those in the Fleet Reserve, are subject to UCMJ jurisdiction at all times and in all places for as long as they live. Retirees from a reserve component are only subject to the UCMJ while receiving hospitalization from an armed service. The question before us is whether this disparate treatment offends the Due Process Clause of the Fifth Amendment. Applying strict scrutiny to the treatment of these similarly situated groups, we determine that UCMJ jurisdiction over retirees is not narrowly tailored to accomplish the goal of good order and discipline in the armed forces. Accordingly, the sections of the UCMJ subjecting regular component retirees to UCMJ jurisdiction are unconstitutional.
 

The Bread Guy

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Blackadder1916 said:
But he does.

US military retirees do not "technically" receive a pension or annuity in the same sense that we do.  They receive "retired pay".

But there were some recent legal challenges and this opinion from the Navy Marine Court of Criminal Appeals says it is unconstitutional, though it is likely to be appealed by the government.

http://www.caaflog.com/wp-content/uploads/BEGANI_201800082_PUB.pdf
Good stuff - thanks for sharing!

The optics of such proceedings maaaaaaaaaaaaay seem a bit vindictive - easier to just Tweet shame & move along.
 

mariomike

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milnews.ca said:
The optics of such proceedings maaaaaaaaaaaaay seem a bit vindictive - easier to just Tweet shame & move along.

Baden Guy said:
"I earned my spurs on the battlefield; Donald Trump earned his spurs in a letter from a doctor," Mattis said.

Even if he could send the General to prison for telling a bad joke, there is this,

Military.com

Incarcerated Veterans

Can A Veteran Receive Retired Military Pay While In Prison?

Generally, yes. Being convicted of a crime almost never jeopardizes a federal pension – the rare exception to this rule are charges relating to criminal disloyalty to the United States: espionage, treason, sabotage, etc.
https://www.military.com/benefits/veteran-benefits/incarcerated-veterans.html


 

Colin Parkinson

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I can only imagine how badly a court martial of Mattis would play out for the administration.
 

mariomike

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Colin P said:
I can only imagine how badly a court martial of Mattis would play out for the administration.

If a little gentle ribbing over something 50 years ago can get a retired Marine court martialed, how's this for a roast from a retired admiral?

ABC News
Oct 18, 2019

Former Navy SEAL commander William McRaven says US under attack from Trump
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/navy-seal-commander-us-attack-trump/story?id=66370025


 
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