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Electric Vehicles and related issues (split from B.C. Heat Dome thread)

Brad Sallows

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There are only 330 million people of all ages in the US. So of the 270 million vehicles a good chunk of them are not daily drivers unless people are riding them 2 at a time like roller skates.

Which applies to the EV fleet as well.

But, there are too many "ifs" involved. Everyone chooses the rosy assumptions. Few will have any idea what's going to happen until EV fleet expansion runs into the obstructionism of anti-energy activists. Since it's easier to create demand (build cars and appliances) than supply (new plants), I suppose there will not be a predictable trend indefinitely; everything will look fine until demand crosses supply and continues rising while people look down the black hole of figuring out how to slow demand growth for the several years it takes to get new supply online.
 

Brad Sallows

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You set a charge timer

Yes, and if I were using one, I'd set it to ensure full charge for the next time I might need the vehicle. Since I'm a cautious person, that would mean recharging immediately after every use in case I need the vehicle for an emergency.
 

Colin Parkinson

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Which applies to the EV fleet as well.

But, there are too many "ifs" involved. Everyone chooses the rosy assumptions. Few will have any idea what's going to happen until EV fleet expansion runs into the obstructionism of anti-energy activists. Since it's easier to create demand (build cars and appliances) than supply (new plants), I suppose there will not be a predictable trend indefinitely; everything will look fine until demand crosses supply and continues rising while people look down the black hole of figuring out how to slow demand growth for the several years it takes to get new supply online.
BCHydro will look smart for building Site C that's for sure. Many utilities survive by selling high, buying low, which was a speciality of BCH. When enough EV's come online, there will be a constant demand, which will be a growing demand to maintain flows in hydro plants, which will eventually lead to reduced reservoir levels
 

Brad Sallows

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Battery tech now is still about 30 years behind on the promises made in the 80/90's

Yeah. I was in uni when people in the physics department were all excited at one time about the promise of hydrogen fuel cells, and a little later on by advances in superconductivity. Still waiting.
 

lenaitch

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Victoria, Australia just implemented a mileage tax, you need to send a picture of your odometer once a year, they charge 2.5 cents per km, which is more than what the electricity costs.

Trusting souls.
I suspect, that own-power generation (with or even without feed-in back to the local grid) and storage may become more common in the years to come.

Regards
G2G

One problem with 'own power' generation is the increasing urbanization of our population coupled with increased density (i.e. more high rise condos and apartments). Retrofitting older buildings will likely be prohibitively expensive, and for many in detached homes in older core areas, they are often on smaller lots and heavily wooded with mature trees. Many of those in older neighbourhoods have to resort to on-street parking which further complicates charges. Of course, there are those who say ownership of vehicles will decline and we will all get by with calling up a roaming electric autonomous vehicle.
 

kev994

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Which applies to the EV fleet as well.
I mean there’s a bunch of collector cars and seasonal vehicles in the mix here. Nobody is going to crush their ‘67 Corvette because they bought a Model 3 to get to work. And even if they also bought an electric motorcycle they’re not going to drive both vehicles at the same time. There’s under 110 million vehicles for daily use and they’re not all being replaced at the same time.
 

Good2Golf

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One problem with 'own power' generation is the increasing urbanization of our population coupled with increased density (i.e. more high rise condos and apartments). Retrofitting older buildings will likely be prohibitively expensive, and for many in detached homes in older core areas, they are often on smaller lots and heavily wooded with mature trees. Many of those in older neighbourhoods have to resort to on-street parking which further complicates charges. Of course, there are those who say ownership of vehicles will decline and we will all get by with calling up a roaming electric autonomous vehicle.
Although arguably those with limited own-power generation capability within the urban denseness could walk or use public transit for far less capital outlay.

Me, I live on an acre and can smell cows depending on the wind direction. I’ve got the space… 😉
 

Brad Sallows

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Looking forward to people's experiences with "own power" solar north of latitude 40.

Waiting for roaming electric autonomous vehicle if a dog has bloat and minutes count...no.
 

kev994

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Yes, and if I were using one, I'd set it to ensure full charge for the next time I might need the vehicle. Since I'm a cautious person, that would mean recharging immediately after every use in case I need the vehicle for an emergency.
You can do that, and you should pay more for it if it’s during peak demand. Do you put gas in your car every time you drive it? You must spend a lot of time at the gas station. What kind of emergency do you envision where you need to drive a long distance? If you had a Model 3 you could add 160 kms in 7 mins, on top of whatever was already remaining in the car, the last time I took my gas car to the gas station it took 10 mins and it stinks.
 

lenaitch

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You can do that, and you should pay more for it if it’s during peak demand. Do you put gas in your car every time you drive it? You must spend a lot of time at the gas station. What kind of emergency do you envision where you need to drive a long distance? If you had a Model 3 you could add 160 kms in 7 mins, on top of whatever was already remaining in the car, the last time I took my gas car to the gas station it took 10 mins and it stinks.

Cool if you are near a Supercharger station or have 3-phase power at your house (480v).
 

kev994

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Cool if you are near a Supercharger station or have 3-phase power at your house (480v).
Nobody has a supercharger at their house, and they don’t need one because they plug it in when they get home so it’s full every day. It’s not like having to stop at the gas station several times a week because it starts the day full. You only need a supercharger for a road trip, or maybe this mythical long distance emergency.
 

Brad Sallows

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Do you put gas in your car every time you drive it? You must spend a lot of time at the gas station.

Only once the range in the tank drops below "distance to emergency resolution" range. Refuelling is about a 5 minute stop for me.
 

Brad Sallows

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What kind of emergency do you envision where you need to drive a long distance? If you had a Model 3 you could add 160 kms in 7 mins

I don't. But I have had emergencies (eg. canine bloat) for which 7 extra minutes is 8 minutes too long. Yes, the vet is only a short drive away. But the optimum car for the shortest possible recharge time is not the best position from which to advocate for EVs.
 

Brad Sallows

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they plug it in when they get home so it’s full every day

So, people who don't charge overnight (unless they're working a 14:00 to 22:00 shift or such like).
 

kev994

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I don't. But I have had emergencies (eg. canine bloat) for which 7 extra minutes is 8 minutes too long. Yes, the vet is only a short drive away. But the optimum car for the shortest possible recharge time is not the best position from which to advocate for EVs.
But if it’s a short drive then in most scenarios you wouldn’t need to charge immediately. I mean, if it’s low I’ll start it immediately but that rarely happens.
 

kev994

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So, people who don't charge overnight (unless they're working a 14:00 to 22:00 shift or such like).
But it doesn’t start charging right away, it waits and starts when the car calculates that it will finish at the time you set.
 

Brad Sallows

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Sure, it might not be necessary. We've established that there are many possible scenarios. Nothing has changed my mind that people's recharging habits are [not] going to be easily nudged into best-case scenarios for energy conservation.
 

Colin Parkinson

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This is interesting was watching it a couple weeks ago, it certainly helps them around a lot of the issues involving their first gen cars.

 
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