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Defense Secretary Mattis Is Out

Bird_Gunner45

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Jarnhamar said:
I think I try and convince myself that Trumps breaking the politician mold, challenging the status quo and taking an all new approach to being president. But holy crap I just can't wrap my head around what's going through his. He reminds me of those videos of kids in a shopping cart racing down hill towards an intersection.

Maybe what Trump really is is a true example of what a politician is without the polish, glib and silver tongue tradecraft.

Why try to convince yourself of anything? He's an unqualified egomaniac with a grasp of international relations akin to an 8 year old.
 

Infanteer

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While ink is being spilled due to Secretary Mattis' departure, Senator Rand Paul makes some points supporting the President's decision that triggered the resignation, points that aren't without merit.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/12/23/rand-paul-trump-syria-withdrawal-1074501

“I think the burden should be on Gen. Mattis and those who want to stay forever in every war theater around the world, the burden is on them to say, if there's no military solution, why are we still sending more military,” Paul said to host Jake Tapper.

....

“We’ve made it toxic for anyone to talk to Russia,“ Paul said, adding: “If we don‘t talk to Russia, we’re never going to find a peaceful solution to the Syria mess.”
 

tomahawk6

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Mattis signs withdrawal order.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/order-to-withdraw-us-forces-from-syria-signed/ar-BBRmxVc?ocid=spartanntp
 

brihard

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tomahawk6 said:
Mattis signs withdrawal order.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/order-to-withdraw-us-forces-from-syria-signed/ar-BBRmxVc?ocid=spartanntp

I don't think anyone would expect any less. He is a consummate professional to the end.
 

FJAG

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Infanteer said:
While ink is being spilled due to Secretary Mattis' departure, Senator Rand Paul makes some points supporting the President's decision that triggered the resignation, points that aren't without merit.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/12/23/rand-paul-trump-syria-withdrawal-1074501

They are not without merit but look at the issue solely from an isolationist US point of view. ISIS isn't defeated and even if it was, that's nowhere near the end of matters. The area right now is in the middle of a serious poker game with a few additional rounds to play. The key players, Syria, Turkey, Russia, Iran, the Kurds and a few others have conflicting interests. Some of the players have been working towards a conference in Geneva for early next year between the Syrian government and rebels which the Kurds have been balking at being involved in. The Kurds were the US's only cards to play if it wanted a part in determining what a future Syria would look like. In effect the US has not only tossed in it's hand but has already signalled, indirectly and directly, both Syria and Turkey to have at the Kurds--two players out of the game for the price of what exactly?

If Trump has done anything here its to show that he does showy things (like moving its embassy to Jerusalem) but doesn't have the stomach to stand the ground and support the US's allies and proxies (ie the Kurds). The US mission there was neither large nor one of significant danger to US troops but it was a strong symbol. The downstream effect is that the few remaining countries/organizations that still trust the US will quickly slip away. It will take Herculean efforts by subsequent administrations over many years to reestablish that trust and reputation.

:dunno:
 

Infanteer

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FJAG said:
The area right now is in the middle of a serious poker game with a few additional rounds to play.

Right, and we've all heard the metaphor to never chase a bad hand - maybe a bad hand is continuing to put blood and treasure into a region with no return on investment?  The Harper government applied that logic in our case and pulled us out of Kandahar in 2011 - perhaps the US administration has grown tired of almost 18 years of pushes, draws, and bad hands and is applying the same logic?  :dunno:

All I'm getting at is that Sen Paul makes a worthwhile argument when he argues that the "stay the course" crowd needs to actually provide the end state.

 

FJAG

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Infanteer said:
. . .
All I'm getting at is that Sen Paul makes a worthwhile argument when he argues that the "stay the course" crowd needs to actually provide the end state.

That is true but when the underlying issue is deeply founded in religion, then the end-state is elusive - or blindingly obvious.

:worms:
 

Jarnhamar

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tomahawk6 said:
If you disagree with the policy,quit.

I feel your answer wouldn't be the same if Clinton won.

If someone believes a policy is really really shitty shouldn't they try to change it instead of just quitting?  Our military has had some shitty policies that we had to fight and change and we're better for it. Or is that apples and oranges?



Why did the US invade Syria and get involved in their civil war in the first place?
 

Infanteer

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Jarnhamar said:
Why did the US invade Syria and get involved in their civil war in the first place?

The US never invaded Syria.  It started escalating its involvement in the Civil War in 2014 when ISIL established its caliphate.
 

Remius

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Jarnhamar said:
I feel your answer wouldn't be the same if Clinton won.

If someone believes a policy is really really shitty shouldn't they try to change it instead of just quitting?  Our military has had some shitty policies that we had to fight and change and we're better for it. Or is that apples and oranges?

Depends. Fighting to change a policy is one thing.  Enforcing and enabling one you fundamentally and ethically disagree with is another.  Sometimes stepping down is the right path for certain people who have strong principles.
 

Jarnhamar

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Infanteer said:
The US never invaded Syria.  It started escalating its involvement in the Civil War in 2014 when ISIL established its caliphate.

They started supplying anti-government Syrian rebels with food, vehicles, cash and training w. Rebels who in turn were trying to oust the president of Syria. They invited themselves to become involved in another countries civil war. Isn't that basically an invasion?
 

Colin Parkinson

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Jarnhamar said:
They started supplying anti-government Syrian rebels with food, vehicles, cash and training w. Rebels who in turn were trying to oust the president of Syria. They invited themselves to become involved in another countries civil war. Isn't that basically an invasion?

As long as your invited by the party holding that particular region, then no. The Syrian government claim to ownership of that land is by the barrel of a gun anyways , so good for the goose, good for the gander.
 

The Bread Guy

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For the record, here's the A/DefSec's statement coming into office ...
Under the direction of President Trump, the Department of Defense remains focused on safeguarding our nation. We have deep respect for Secretary Mattis’ lifetime of service, and it has been a privilege to serve as his deputy secretary.

As acting secretary of defense, I now look forward to working with President Trump to carry out his vision alongside strong leaders including the service secretaries, the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the combatant commanders, and senior personnel in the Office of the Secretary of Defense.

The Department of Defense continues to be one of our nation’s bedrock institutions. Our foundational strength lies in the remarkable men and women who volunteer to serve our country and protect our freedoms, while making immense personal sacrifice. It is an honor to work with such a dedicated team committed to the greatness of our nation.
 

OceanBonfire

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Pentagon chief of staff resigns:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/kevin-sweeney-pentagon-chief-of-staff-resigns-james-mattis/
 

tomahawk6

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Radm Sweeny I suspect was the force behind a drone strike that killed the man behind the USS Cole bombing. I like it.

https://www.foxnews.com/world/al-qaeda-operative-tied-to-uss-cole-bombing-killed-in-us-airstrike-trump-says
 

brihard

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tomahawk6 said:
Radm Sweeny I suspect was the force behind a drone strike that killed the man behind the USS Cole bombing. I like it.

https://www.foxnews.com/world/al-qaeda-operative-tied-to-uss-cole-bombing-killed-in-us-airstrike-trump-says

Good catch. Potentially the “closure” he needed to retire in peace?
 
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