Canadian Special Operations Regiment (CSOR)

little jim

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FYI

CANFORGEN 163/05 DCDS 146 211540Z OCT 05
CANSOFCOM SENIOR APPOINTMENTS
UNCLASSIFIED



ON BEHALF OF THE COMMANDER CANADIAN SPECIAL OPERATIONS FORCES COMMAND (CANSOFCOM), I AM PLEASED TO ANNOUNCE THE FOLLOWING KEY APPOINTMENTS FOR CANSOFCOM UNITS(READ IN FOUR COLUMNS: UNIT, POSITION, NAME, EFFECTIVE DATE)

CO DESIGNATE APPOINTMENT:

JOINT ACTION TASK FORCE(JATF), CO, LCOL insert name, IMMEDIATELY

CWO APPOINTMENTS:


CANSOFCOM CWO, CWO  insert name, , EFF 1 JAN 07


JATF, RSM DESIGNATE, MWO  insert name, , IMMEDIATELY


CANSOFCOM IS THE RECENTLY ANNOUNCED COMMAND WHICH WILL BRING TOGETHER EXISTING SPECIAL OPERATIONS FORCES UNDER A UNIFIED COMMAND AS WELL AS DEVELOP FUTURE SPECIAL OPERATIONS FORCES. ONE OF THESE FUTURE FORCES IS THE JOINT ACTION TASK FORCE. THIS HIGHLY TRAINED AND MOBILE BATTALION SIZED FORCE WILL SUPPORT SPECIAL OPERATIONS ACTIVITIES BOTH DOMESTICALLY AND ABROAD


DCDS CONGRATULATES THE APPOINTED MEMBRS
 

Old Sweat

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Note that the CANSOFCOM CWO is appointed effective 1 Jan 07. Could this be an error? Watch and shoot.
 

Bartok5

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The creation of CANSOFCOM and the subordinate JATF are definitely moving ahead at a rapid rate, as indicated by the announcement of Comd and RSM appointments for both organizations.  CANSOFCOM is to be functional by Feb 06, as is the case with CEFCOM, etc.  The officer and Sr NCO leadership of JATF will stand-up in APS 06, with the bulk of the unit postings occurring between APS 06 and 07.  

The creation of JATF is not a "smoke and mirrors" excercise.  The new unit is a high-priority capability that will definitely be formed sooner rather than later.  Unfortunately, in the short term this will undoubtedly occur at the expense of manpower within the existing Cbt A units - specifically the nine infantry battalions.  The experienced soldiers for the JATF (which will have an establishment larger than any existing battalion) have to come from somewhere.  Starting with the several hundred officers and Sr NCO positions that are designated to be filled by next summer.

It will be interesting to see if our problematic recruiting system can increase national intake and throughput to alleviate the resultant manpower shortage that the stand-up of the JATF will create within existing units.  Not to sound pessimistic, but I harbour serious doubts given the fact that the system cannot even recruit to meet attrition, let alone bring our exisitng units up to authorized strength.  I predict that some of our existing units (eg.  those in "low readiness") will be reduced to skeleton organizations.  The current manning shortfalls cannot help but get worse before they get better.  

There is detailed information regarding precise personnel numbers, unit composition and IOC/FOC timelines floating around on the DIN for those who have access and know who to ask.  Since that information it is not "open source", OPSEC precludes its dissemination here.   I for one, will not divulge any further information regarding the JATF and would caution others with that info to do the same.   Details of the JATF application and selection process will be released in further CANFORGENs as events unfold.   Once released in the public domain, I am sure that the information will find its way here.   Until then, I would suggest that rampant speculation regarding the new unit is utterly pointless and potentially counter-productive.      

All things considered, despite the inherent manning challenges associated with the creation of CANSOFCOM and the JATF this is an exciting capability development for our Army.  Once again, we are about to have a highly trained battalion-sized organization that the fittest and keenest soldiers can aspire to without having to possess the very specific attributes required for service in JTF 2.            
 

Bartok5

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Old Sweat said:
Note that the CANSOFCOM CWO is appointed effective 1 Jan 07. Could this be an error? Watch and shoot.

The CANSOFCOM CWO designate is currently serving as the RSM of another unit.  The Jan 07 posting date is most likely a reflection of his earliest availability for a formal transfer of appointment.  Suffice it to say that the individual in question is currently employed in a place where he can likely fulfill both roles as CANSOFCOM HQ stands up.
 

Old Sweat

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Mark C

Thank you very much. Your posts have cleared things up a bit, and raised some interesting points to ponder. I am sure this is just the start of a long and interesting debate, along with the odd emotional response and periodic posts by the ninjettes lurking out there.
 

Infanteer

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2332Piper said:
Why not bring back the CAR to give us a true light infantry capability and let the mech battalions focus on being mech infantry instead of flopping between being mounted and 'equipment-constrained'?

Better yet, let the armoured focus on the vehicles, let the line infantry focus on the wide-array of Light Forces tasks and let JATF assume it's proper role as a "Tier III" SOC-unit.  -This- is what the Aussies are doing when you look at how their various armoured units, the RAR and 4RAR function.

Then again, the Aussies are doing the same sort of thing. Oh well, what do I know.

Precisely, I think the Aussies serve as a good example to show that we have the "critical mass" to do this if we properly sustain our existing units.  The only difficulty we have is not to fumble the ball in the middle of such a high-tempo time while we are at war (remember that part) and mess it up.
 

Kev T

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This sounds really really cool, hopefully things will work out successfully sooner rather than later. This is exactly the type of unit the Canadian Army needs - something to bridge the gap between your conventional infantry and special forces - commandos if you will. I do hope however that we have the equipment to support such an outfit such as the airlift (I'm just assuming they'll be jump capable), have the helicopters they need, and hopefully these large amphibious assault ships with landing craft we're thinking of getting. And hopefully we also get those sooner rather than later. :salute: :cdn:
 

devil39

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As I stated on another thread:

In view of the latest on this "transformational" piece, in my humble opinion this is the best thing our CF could be doing at this point.

Congratulations to all involved.

The army will survive this and be stronger for it in the long term.  Certainly the infantry battalions will bear the brunt of this.  Sort the recruiting and training out for the backfills and let us get on with this. 

Absolutely the best thing to come out of the transformation of the CF.
 

Tracker

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The recruiting system is not the problem, the lack of training facilities is.  You tell the recruiting system what you want and they will get it for you, but you should be ready and able to train what you get.  Three years ago the recruiting system was told to recruit techs, they recruited so many that PRETC had to be created to hold them because the training system could not cope.  Today, the training system still can't cope because it has not been enlarged to handle the numbers that were recruited.  The result is hundreds of troops with BMQ waiting for months/years for pre-requisite and occupational training.

There are many applicants waiting for Cbt Arms, some wait for months for an offer, that tells me that the training system can't keep up with recruiting.
 

GO!!!

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I think there is more than enough blame to go around for both the Recruiting Centers and the Trg system.

My suggestion to fix those problems is simple.

The current reason given by the army (not too sure about the AF and Navy) is that there is a dire shortage of qualified instructors. I think that a major reason for the lack of instructors is that so many instructors are loathe to be posted to miserable ****holes like Wainwright and Shilo. This means that many of the instructors posted to the schools will quit, just to avoid moving there.

If the schools were co - located with the units they fed, there would be no shortage of qualified instructors, and whole units could be tasked to run coy size battle schools.

Before the old argument about maintenance of standards is trotted out as an opposition to any resources being denied to the schools, in my experience, the battalions have higher standards in everything that is assessed (with the possible exception of drill), so let them train the people that will be coming to their own units.

This appears to be what will happen with the JATF, with instructors also forming the basis of the unit, and being co - located with the trg system for it.

Thoughts?
 

Tracker 23A

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Mark C and Go!!!:

Good comments and a good illustration on the pros and cons of the creation and existence of such a unit.  Nonetheless, we can look forward to a good future in the Infantry because of it.

Its about time.
 

Infanteer

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GO!!! said:
If the schools were co - located with the units they fed, there would be no shortage of qualified instructors, and whole units could be tasked to run coy size battle schools.
\

Nice idea.

Training Platoon as part of Admin Coy.  Give a Platoon Commander and Warrant (and the NCO's) their students and let them train them up to snuff.  Load them on a bus and go to Wainwright or whereever for the field exs.  After graduation, fill in the empty spots with Corporals, and viola - trained platoon.
 

Armymedic

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Tracker 23A said:
Mark C and Go!!!:

Good comments and a good illustration on the pros and cons of the creation and existence of such a unit.   Nonetheless, we can look forward to a good future in the Infantry because of it.

Its about time.

Not just the infantry, but all arms, CS and certain CSS as well.
 

Haggis

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GO!!! said:
If the schools were co - located with the units they fed, there would be no shortage of qualified instructors, and whole units could be tasked to run coy size battle schools.

Before the old argument about maintenance of standards is trotted out as an opposition to any resources being denied to the schools, in my experience, the battalions have higher standards in everything that is assessed (with the possible exception of drill), so let them train the people that will be coming to their own units.

You mean like it was done back in "the day"?  :-[

I daresay the standard of drill on my RCR QL3 was at least as high as that on the Hill (the big Hill, .... not the "Hooded Hill").  If not, it certainly felt that way at the time....
 

buzgo

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FYI all the sig units around the country have been asked for volunteers for the HQ and to provide troops for the JATF. The HQ positions are open immediately with more to come in APS 06, with the JATF stuff coming sometime later. All rank levels from Cpl to MWO.
 

armyvern

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signalsguy said:
FYI all the sig units around the country have been asked for volunteers for the HQ and to provide troops for the JATF. The HQ positions are open immediately with more to come in APS 06, with the JATF stuff coming sometime later. All rank levels from Cpl to MWO.
Hunting them on our side as well.
 

pbi

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GO!!! said:
I If the schools were co - located with the units they fed, there would be no shortage of qualified instructors, and whole units could be tasked to run coy size battle schools.

Before the old argument about maintenance of standards is trotted out as an opposition to any resources being denied to the schools, in my experience, the battalions have higher standards in everything that is assessed (with the possible exception of drill), so let them train the people that will be coming to their own units.
Thoughts?

I have come to be a big believer in devolved training, especially as a result of my experiences in 38 CBG. To me (and to other "believers") "one standard" does not mean "one school". Let me offer a parallel:

In Ontario, there is one law governing the professional standards of doctors. The consequences of error for doctors are: death, injury and suffering, as well as severe financial loss. However, Ontario does not run one single medical school: it runs several. 'One standard" does not mean "one school".

What is needed is not to drag thousands of students and instructors around the country every year: instead, have a smaller (but still adequate) standards inspection and maintenance force, with strong powers and backed up by the chain of command. We have achieved this to some degree in the Army Reserve with the Bde Standards dets (we had three in 38 CBG) but I think it could be made stronger still, and expanded to better permit devolved training by Reg Bdes. Do the training locally: move the Standards people around. To a certain extent this is happening now.

As well, I think our slow (but gradually accelerating) adoption of Distributed Learning (ie: on-line learning to replace sitting in a classroom three hundred miles away...) will help us down the path to devolved training.

It will take work, vigilance, and some dink-slapping of slackers to make this work, but I believe it is achievable.


Cheers.
 

Sub_Guy

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They are looking for NavComm volunteers too,  as there aren't enought sig ops to fill all the positions.
 

pbi

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I expect to hear a briefing on SOG and probably on JATF as well in the next week or so. If there are UNCLAS parts, I will try to offer them here if that is appropriate.

Cheers.
 

a_beautiful_tragedy

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2332Piper said:
So with only 9 regular force infantry battalions we are making a new SF Battalion AND expanding JTF2 to around 600 troops?

Where in the name of the good lord are we going to find the troops? Lets say we have 8000 reg force infantry types and what....1000-1200 SF types with these new units....thats 15% of our total infantry types being 'SF'. Isn't that a little high?

Methinks that for all the good he has done, our CDS is on a 'SF High' so to say. We don't really have the troops (or the need) for so many SF types in an army our size. Why not bring back the CAR to give us a true light infantry capability and let the mech battalions focus on being mech infantry instead of flopping between being mounted and 'equipment-constrained'?

Then again, the Aussies are doing the same sort of thing. Oh well, what do I know.


thats all very true and are very good points which i agree with
dont you think though, that if this does happen which it will, the recruiting numbers will go up ?
because even i have talked to people asking them how come they never joined ?, and the majority of answers are " we dont see combat", yes thats a bit sad but it is true todays kids want to see combat especially with all the newer age movies (black hawk down and the new jar head movie) and the iraq war which are feeding there combat desires.
so with jtf2 and unit to support them, chances of our country getting into thicker mud will be more likley. And of course this will be on the ctv, cbc, etc. so all the younger adults will see this as their "new" chance to see combat...and probably enlist.  :cdn:
 
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