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All things Novel Coronavirus (2019-nCoV)

Messerschmitt

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Great job at 'closing the borders' there federal government. Well done.

And requiring travellers to show proof of a negative Covid test before boarding a Canada bound plane? Also being executed flawlessly.

Just fantastic. Top reviews. :mad: :cry: (So ticked off...)
The 5000 cases are just smoke and mirrors. If you are ticked off that means the propaganda machine is working well oiled.

I am saying this because if you are ticked off at 5000 cases since february, then you should be outraged and protesting in ottawa demanding answers why over 6 millions essential travelers have entered Canada in 2020 alone without a single test (not even a rapid one) and not a single day of quarantine. And until recently, US was the biggest petri dish in the entire world.

This is the equivalent of ON closing down parks and golf courses when all the infections are happening at work or essential stores being opened.

Just saying, you are barking at the wrong tree....
 

PMedMoe

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I am saying this because if you are ticked off at 5000 cases since february, then you should be outraged and protesting in ottawa demanding answers why over 6 millions essential travelers have entered Canada in 2020 alone without a single test (not even a rapid one) and not a single day of quarantine. And until recently, US was the biggest petri dish in the entire world.
Do you have a reference for the underlined part? Or is it like your knowledge of "many complications" from vaccines?

News article from Dec 2020:

There have been more than 7 million entries into Canada since COVID-19 began.

Vinette said truck drivers account for the largest group of people entering Canada during the pandemic, making up about half of the total entries so far.

The second-biggest group is individuals who live in border towns and have jobs on the opposite side of the border, he said.

Both groups are exempt from Canada's 14-day quarantine requirement — which was designed to help stop the spread of COVID-19.

When looking at nationalities, Vinette said, Canadian citizens and permanent residents make up the largest group of people entering the country during the border shutdown.

Disclaimer: A previous version of this story stated that more than seven million people have entered Canada since lockdowns began. In fact, that number includes multiple entries by the same people, so the number of different people who have entered is likely lower.
 

Messerschmitt

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Do you have a reference for the underlined part? Or is it like your knowledge of "many complications" from vaccines?

News article from Dec 2020:

There have been more than 7 million entries into Canada since COVID-19 began.

Vinette said truck drivers account for the largest group of people entering Canada during the pandemic, making up about half of the total entries so far.

The second-biggest group is individuals who live in border towns and have jobs on the opposite side of the border, he said.

Both groups are exempt from Canada's 14-day quarantine requirement — which was designed to help stop the spread of COVID-19.

When looking at nationalities, Vinette said, Canadian citizens and permanent residents make up the largest group of people entering the country during the border shutdown.

Disclaimer: A previous version of this story stated that more than seven million people have entered Canada since lockdowns began. In fact, that number includes multiple entries by the same people, so the number of different people who have entered is likely lower.
Would a Canadian citizen/PR not have the same chance of being infected? And AFAIK, only citizens/PR were allowed to enter Canada anyway, essential or not essential since the start of the pandemic minus a few exemptions such as immediate family member or extended later on last year.

And the same person entering twice does not mean the chances are lower to enter infected vs 2 people entering once (unless that person already got COVID and it had immunity).

My reference is that there has been no testing or quarantine of essential travelers. Do you have something else stating otherwise? That they have been tested or quarantined?


Regarding trust in the government, it always helps when the governments hides/withholds information


Overall it's no big deal, but it definitely helps with people who are already skeptics in everything the government says we should do /s
 

CBH99

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My understanding, which just comes from various news articles I have read, is that all passengers coming to Canada by plane must show a valid Covid test issued within 3 days of them boarding the aircraft. (Covid test has to show negative, obviously.)

But if that were being enforced, we shouldn't be experiencing flights landing daily with Covid positive passengers walking off... so I feel like something in the plan isn't functioning as it should, or there is a contributing factor to this that I am not aware of.

Because if 99 Covid negative passengers get onto a plane, then I would just assume that there would be 99 Covid negative passengers getting off of that same plane...


I'll do some digging once I'm home for articles, and edit my post accordingly. As for enforcement of quarantine if someone lands here and are positive? I have no idea how strictly that is being enforced. Anybody?
 

Loachman

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More people might be more accepting of restrictions if information was available to justify them. A lot of restrictions seem arbitrary, like Ontario closing golf courses and sports practices being alright but not actual games. Does the virus know the difference between just running around and chasing a ball and keeping score while doing so?

Present me with the information, Doug. Show your homework.
 

CBH99

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Agreed. I believe it is a combination of restrictions that seem arbitrary, some that have absolutely zero scientific backing, and the apathy that most citizenry are either feeling or accepting as no government has presented a plan to say "We need to accomplish Objective A, and the reward will be reopening."

Now that vaccines are arriving in larger and larger numbers, and more often - and the vaccination program has some momentum behind it now - I hope provincial governments will reveal strategies that take into consideration one of the most basic principals of motivating people to do things.



Cancelling practices, but not games? Not allowed to shake hands before or after the game, but can still play certain team sports? Can't go to the gym alone, or workout by yourself...but you ARE allowed if you go WITH someone who is certified as a trainer?

Implement restrictions that actually make sense. Now that vaccines are available, unveal a proactive plan to reopening rather than a reactive plan to "oh no, our numbers are up!" Test using consistent methods across the board, so the numbers aren't so unreliable, etc etc - and people may be more patient.


0.02
 

Mick

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My understanding, which just comes from various news articles I have read, is that all passengers coming to Canada by plane must show a valid Covid test issued within 3 days of them boarding the aircraft. (Covid test has to show negative, obviously.)

But if that were being enforced, we shouldn't be experiencing flights landing daily with Covid positive passengers walking off... so I feel like something in the plan isn't functioning as it should, or there is a contributing factor to this that I am not aware of.

Because if 99 Covid negative passengers get onto a plane, then I would just assume that there would be 99 Covid negative passengers getting off of that same plane...


I'll do some digging once I'm home for articles, and edit my post accordingly. As for enforcement of quarantine if someone lands here and are positive? I have no idea how strictly that is being enforced. Anybody?
The COVID tests prior to boarding must be completed within 72 hrs of boarding - it's possible to become infected between being tested, and boarding a flight.
 

PMedMoe

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My reference is that there has been no testing or quarantine of essential travelers. Do you have something else stating otherwise? That they have been tested or quarantined?
My bad, I must have skimmed and didn't see that you said essential travelers (who are exempt from quarantine).

The 7 million who entered Canada last year weren't all essential workers though. Those who weren't, should have been tested and/or ordered to quarantine.

I know when I entered Canada last March, I was instructed at the border to quarantine for 14 days, which I did.

As far as mentioning that some of those numbers were people who entered more than once, was to show how the number could look like a lot more than it actually was. I would imagine many truck drivers on certain routes probably exited and entered Canada several times last year.
 

GK .Dundas

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I regret to say they all seem to be having trouble getting any coherent message out. Federal or provincial governments all seem to have developed an inability to speak in either official language.
I have have complained/whined for years that Canadian politicians had lost the ability to actually do almost anything other than talk and perform only symbolic gestures.
Now they seem to be unable to do that as well.
 

Messerschmitt

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My bad, I must have skimmed and didn't see that you said essential travelers (who are exempt from quarantine).

The 7 million who entered Canada last year weren't all essential workers though. Those who weren't, should have been tested and/or ordered to quarantine.

I know when I entered Canada last March, I was instructed at the border to quarantine for 14 days, which I did.

As far as mentioning that some of those numbers were people who entered more than once, was to show how the number could look like a lot more than it actually was. I would imagine many truck drivers on certain routes probably exited and entered Canada several times last year.
I don't have the reference right now but something like over 66% of those were essential travelers (airline and landborder). You can have the thoughest restrictons you want (28 days in quarantine, 1-1 escort to hotel, etc, more crazier than Australia, etc), it's all worthless if 4 million are never tested or quarantined. But it will look like politicians do something about it and the sheep will buy it, even though is as ineffective as closing down golf courses.
 

PMedMoe

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sheep eating GIF
 

PMedMoe

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Blackadder1916

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Yeah, the "leaked" document was a book published in 2015 and openly sold on Amazon. :rolleyes:

Nice to know. While looking at the quoted texts from that book, my immediate thought was the similarity with what I remember from a number of American and British military pubs (and possibly Canadian ones, though we used a lot of others countries' pams as reference) that were used on a number of NBC courses that I did during the Cold War. Though there wasn't a lot of discussion about American or British stockpiles of "biologicals", back in the day they (we Canadians didn't admit to being as nasty) were as much into offensive chemical warfare as our adversaries.
 

Brad Sallows

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"Back in the day (Cold War)" was over 30 years ago. What's relevant is what everyone is doing now. With respect to any given country, there are really only two possibilities: they are, or they aren't.
 

CBH99

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I don't have the reference right now but something like over 66% of those were essential travelers (airline and landborder). You can have the thoughest restrictons you want (28 days in quarantine, 1-1 escort to hotel, etc, more crazier than Australia, etc), it's all worthless if 4 million are never tested or quarantined. But it will look like politicians do something about it and the sheep will buy it, even though is as ineffective as closing down golf courses.
That's what a lot of the current restrictions are, the appearance of doing something.

My mother and I often have quite deep political debates, which we both enjoy, as we are both able to discuss issues without illogical loyalty to any one party or idea, etc. When they first introduced the 'arrows on the floor' at grocery stores and whatnot, I had brought up "it is the appearance of doing something, so the average person feels safer. That's it though. It's the appearance of doing something - the virus doesn't care which direction you are walking. If someone stops to get something off a shelf, and you walk behind/past them, the virus doesn't care which direction you are going..."

She had thought I was being harsh, and replied - albeit correctly overall - that this was going to be a learning experience in many ways, but I was being overly harsh. That wasn't my intention, especially at the beginning of the pandemic with places like Italy and NYC getting hammered hard, and being fully aware that if my mother caught it, I highly doubt she'd survive.


Fast forward to now, and I think she's finally seen through the veil of blind trust in government. Not being allowed to get her nails or hair done one week, then allowed the next week, then 2 weeks later, back to not being allowed. Her grandson (don't worry folks, I didn't reproduce! Have a dog and she's my world) - isn't allowed to shake hands before or after a basketball game, but can still play the game (sweating and panting all over each other).

There are restrictions that absolutely make sense, which I think everybody supports unless they are just ignorant of the situation overall. Some things though, seem to just be for optics sake. I am glad the vaccine rollout has picked up pace, and as of Friday approx 15.7M Canadians have had their first injection. So while the total number of fully vaccinated people is still fairly low, we need to take the good when it comes - and 15.7M having their first vaccine is really good news. Now that vaccines are coming in much more often & much larger shipments, I have high hopes for May & June.


My question to your post above is (not to you specifically, an open question for anybody) - is what truly constitutes an 'essential' traveller? As the world has adjusted to using phone calls & video conferencing for so many things (some western governments have even been run via video conferencing) -- what would we, or should we, consider an essential traveller?
 

Messerschmitt

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Yeah, the "leaked" document was a book published in 2015 and openly sold on Amazon. :rolleyes:

Sky News Australia is tapping into the global conspiracy set

Overall, we rate Sky News Australia Right-Biased based on story selection and editorial positions that mostly favor the right. We also rate them Mixed for factual reporting due to failed fact checks, unproven claims, as well as the promotion of conspiracy theories and misinformation. Media Bias/Fact Check - Search and Learn the Bias of News Media
Uuuu, the fact checkers, which are paid big bucks by political parties and agenda makers who mark everything as "FALSE" if anything/anyone dares to stop drinking the mainstream kool aid and dare say anything against the narrative.

Sky News Australia is doing a ten fold better job at actual journalism than completely biased media such as CNN, CBC or CTV, which all push their agenda hardcore.

But CNN the best right? RIGHT?


Or will the fact checkers come in and say that Sky News Australia faked the footage uncovering CNN blatant lies via hidden cameras (through project veritas)???

You can also fact check this

In 2010, 244 unintended releases of bioweapon candidate “select agents” were reported.
 
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